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Re: Thanks to each one who answered my question on patrons and scanne rs



On Tue, 21 Nov 2000, Roy Webb wrote:

> Well, it's Friday for me as I won't be in the office the rest of the
> week.  But I wanted to respond on the query about allowing patrons
> to use their own scanners, and especially on the situation
> described, where someone wanted to scan your images and then
> sell them, and had what seemed to me to be a lotta gall to say he
> wouldn't guarantee a credit line.  Here's the door, Mr. Smith,
> thanks so much for coming in.  Don't call us, we'll call you.

I definitely agree.  Regardless of what they're offering in the way of
royalty, if they can't offer credits, then the paltry royalty payments
are all you'll get.  How is this different from requiring citations to
original sources used in books?  If someone reading the book has no
idea where the author found the information, the reader can't pursue
the question, and you receive no credit for your assistance.

> Actually what motivated me is a couple of requests lately by
> different sources; one local, one online, to ask us to provide
> "content."  The first was a local guy who worked for a local
> geneaology company--lots of those in Utah, believe me--who
> wanted to scan all of our mining photos and put them on CD.  At
> first he presented it as doing a favor for local historical societies
> and museums, all of which had residents displaced from the little
> towns of Bingham, Lark, and others when the Kennecott mine ate
> their towns.  Fine, we have lots and lots of such photos.  Then it
> comes around to how his company wants to set up their scanner in
> our reading room, scan all those images, and then put them up for
> sale on their website.  We'd have to give them the rights and would
> get a 15% fee for each one they sold.

This sounds like, "You do all the research and dig up the photos and
lay them out for us, and we'll scan them as quickly as possible
(because *our* time is valuable) and burn a CD.  Then we'll throw a
couple of bucks your way to compensate you for your help."  And when
the CD comes out they'll make it look like *they* did the research,
spent countless hours looking for relevant images and digging up the
details on each one, and, if they're feeling especially generous, they
might mention, in 4-point type, the source of the images.

As someone else mentioned, it makes a difference whether you're state
supported or private.  If you're private, then you're free to use
their 15% offer as a starting point for negotiation.  Such
negotiations should be conducted by your legal advisors, since they're
the ones who would have to enforce the contract.  It should never be a
"here's what we're offering, take it or leave it" proposal.  A good
contract ought to include, besides the royalty info, specific rules on
how and where your repository is to be credited.

Another issue that would come into play is copyright.  We don't claim
copyright on most of the images in our holdings; for many, we have no
idea who the photographer was or who might now own the rights.  We
state that upfront, and we require anyone using our materials to
indemnify us against future copyright violation. Unless you hold the
rights to every image, or unless you're sure they are no longer
covered by copyright, you need to have the vendor explicitly assume
all responsibility for infringement.  Otherwise, if someone finds one
of grand-daddy's photos on this CD, and they can prove they own the
rights, they'll come after you, and maybe the outfit that put together
the CD.  Of course, in the latter case, the vendor will take great
pains to point out that they really did very little, you initiated the
whole deal, and they only reluctantly accepted payment for their
services, so you should receive all of the "credit."

> The next was similar in motivation and promises; it was an online
> vendor with a proprietary web-viewer of some sort, who wanted to
> digitize our film holdings and do the same thing, even down to our
> cut: 15% of whatever they sold.  They said they had "content" from
> every state but Utah and Alabama or somewhere, and that we were
> the best source.  I looked at their site; could never get the viewer to
> work, and failed to see how our old home movies of floating in the
> Great Salt Lake or skiing at Alta in 1952 would fit on their glossy,
> hip-hop, must-be-the-start-of-the-latest-style website, so I told them
> no.

And if your content does wind up on a shoddy, slapped-together site,
it will reflect as poorly on you as on the people who put it together.

> I told both of them no; I didn't like the idea of signing us up for
> something I wasn't sure I trusted, and besides, why should we get
> 15% when we could get 100% by doing it ourselves?

It's true they might be providing equipment and expertise that you
might not have, or might not need for anything else, and for this they
should be compensated.  But an 85/15 split sounds totally
unreasonable.

Hopefully, you have attorneys on your staff with some understanding of
the value of your materials, and the desire to reach a deal that
benefits you as well as the vendor (if not, you have my sympathy).
If you do, let those attorneys hammer out an agreement; that's what
they get paid for.  I'm not questioning your circumstances, but if I
tried to commit our institution to a publication deal where royalty
was involved (beyond the basic fee-for-publication arrangement that
applies to anyone ordering photos and requesting permission to
publish), I'd have attorneys and senior administrators visiting me
very quickly.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

James Stimpert                       E-mail:    James.Stimpert@jhu.edu
Archives (Arts and Sciences)
MSE Library
Johns Hopkins University             Voice:     (410) 516-8323
3400 North Charles Street
Baltimore, MD  21218                 Fax:       (410) 516-7202

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