Search found 14 matches

by Joe Rutherford
September 20th, 2012, 9:29 am
Forum: What does this text mean?
Topic: ANGELO of Rev 2:1
Replies: 29
Views: 3047

Re: ANGELO of Rev 2:1

Hello again everyone. I've had a change of mind about this issue and have seen the wisdom of accepting the normal translation of Rev 2:1(a). One reason for this is that there is a connection between that text contained in chapters 2 and 3, and other text in Revelation. As the vision continues, John ...
by Joe Rutherford
September 18th, 2012, 4:04 pm
Forum: What does this text mean?
Topic: ANGELO of Rev 2:1
Replies: 29
Views: 3047

Re: ANGELO of Rev 2:1

The 'instrumental dative' indicates the instrument with which one does something. It's my impression that the instrumental dative works with non-animate objects, not a human. Do you have examples of instrumental datives for people? I've done little research and am very much a beginning greek studen...
by Joe Rutherford
September 17th, 2012, 8:46 am
Forum: What does this text mean?
Topic: ANGELO of Rev 2:1
Replies: 29
Views: 3047

Re: ANGELO of Rev 2:1

Hey Timothy, I'd be delighted to hear your analysis of the topic. PM or post if you'd like. I'm sure it would be a blessing. In your above post you refer to " the clear sense of the grammer". On that topic, one thing that stands out in this discussion is the constant reminder that AGGELWi is in the...
by Joe Rutherford
September 16th, 2012, 9:55 pm
Forum: What does this text mean?
Topic: ANGELO of Rev 2:1
Replies: 29
Views: 3047

Re: ANGELO of Rev 2:1

I submit that the indirect object of GRAPSON in Rev 2:1 is simply the words... No, that's the direct object — what John writes. The indirect object (if that's even the appropriate term here) is the recipient of the writing, which, as David points out immediately above, is the αγγελω. The addressee ...
by Joe Rutherford
September 13th, 2012, 7:04 pm
Forum: What does this text mean?
Topic: ANGELO of Rev 2:1
Replies: 29
Views: 3047

Re: ANGELO of Rev 2:1

Even if the message to each Church could not be described technicaly as the indirect object of GRAPSON, I still believe the message in each case is what John is being told to write, and that he is not being told to write to an angel. As previously stated, this falls in the general category of interp...
by Joe Rutherford
September 13th, 2012, 2:52 pm
Forum: What does this text mean?
Topic: ANGELO of Rev 2:1
Replies: 29
Views: 3047

Re: ANGELO of Rev 2:1

Hi Glenn, Yes I suppose this issue is about: What is the indirect object of GRAPSON? As you pointed out the normal/traditional interpretation is that TWi AGGELWi should be the indirect object and therefore would best be translated using the English "to". This ideal has been in the Churches since Jer...
by Joe Rutherford
September 10th, 2012, 6:44 pm
Forum: What does this text mean?
Topic: ANGELO of Rev 2:1
Replies: 29
Views: 3047

Re: ANGELO of Rev 2:1

Joe, You asked: "I understand each angel simply to be John. Do you think that conclusion is even possible based solely upon the greek?" Several people have already responded, and the short answer is: No, it is not possible. The Greek text uses an imperative: You, John, is to write a message. The re...
by Joe Rutherford
September 10th, 2012, 5:24 pm
Forum: Introductions
Topic: Hello
Replies: 6
Views: 1553

Re: Hello

Mark House wrote:Welcome from a fellow Springs resident, Joe.
Thanks Mark. BTW- Today I purchased a copy of "Analytical Lexicon of New Testament Greek" and I assume you served as co-editor (?). I think this will help alot in learning greek. I have a long ways to go, but seem to be off to a good start at least.
by Joe Rutherford
September 3rd, 2012, 1:33 am
Forum: What does this text mean?
Topic: ANGELO of Rev 2:1
Replies: 29
Views: 3047

Re: ANGELO of Rev 2:1

There is a misunderstanding here. I am not saying or have ever said, that John is being told to write a letter to himself :!: There are 7 Spirits, but 1 Spirit. There are 7 Churches and all part of the 1 Church. There are 7 angels, but 1 angel. So the one Spirit speaks to each of the seven Churches ...
by Joe Rutherford
August 27th, 2012, 4:21 pm
Forum: What does this text mean?
Topic: ANGELO of Rev 2:1
Replies: 29
Views: 3047

Re: ANGELO of Rev 2:1

Thanks for the tutorial guidance. :) I've just began to study a couple of basic greek grammers and the subject of basic sentence structure. I've also read the "things greek teachers will not tell you", posted at this site. One statement was that you need more than the greek, the greek can only limit...