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by Stephen Hughes
October 24th, 2017, 1:21 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: ἐγνώκατε vs. ἐγνώκειτε
Replies: 12
Views: 527

Re: ἐγνώκατε vs. ἐγνώκειτε

In the reading of the grammar that that statement is based on, the past tense is made to serve a double function - the first to mark a condition contrary to fact, and the second to indicate past time. There is variation in the significance of what contrary to fact means across various examples. It s...
by Stephen Hughes
October 24th, 2017, 1:09 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: "upon this rock" in Matthew 16:18
Replies: 14
Views: 590

Re: "upon this rock" in Matthew 16:18

Syntactically, αὕτη ἐστιν ἡ ἐπιστολή or ταύτῃ τῇ πέτρᾳ does not necessarily imply a reference unless the context does. I agree. I said the referent was found independent of the syntax. There is another level of understanding that shouldn't be ignored If Jesus were pointing to a physical rock on the...
by Stephen Hughes
October 24th, 2017, 11:46 am
Forum: New Testament
Topic: "upon this rock" in Matthew 16:18
Replies: 14
Views: 590

Re: "upon this rock" in Matthew 16:18

Jonathan Robie wrote:
October 24th, 2017, 6:03 am
And then context, culture, history, and other things help guide our understanding of which possibilities are most likely.
Perhaps, theology (our own or Biblical) and belief (the Faith).
by Stephen Hughes
October 24th, 2017, 11:29 am
Forum: New Testament
Topic: "upon this rock" in Matthew 16:18
Replies: 14
Views: 590

Re: "upon this rock" in Matthew 16:18

I don't want this to get lost - Timothy is correct here, and this is the one direct response to the question in the OP. ταυτη is not referring back to anything, it refers to πετρα. For WAYK folks, it's analogous to this dialogue: τί ἐστιν τοῦτο; αὕτη ἐστιν ἡ ἐπιστολή. Jonathan, I question your asse...
by Stephen Hughes
October 24th, 2017, 2:40 am
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: ἐγνώκατε vs. ἐγνώκειτε
Replies: 12
Views: 527

Re: ἐγνώκατε vs. ἐγνώκειτε

But irrespective of the tense used, the construction can still be identified as a past unfulfilled conditional. Wow! Functional equivalence in translation, categorisation of syntactic structures and formal categorisation of verb forms all in the same breath ... That's an explanation on speed-skates...
by Stephen Hughes
October 23rd, 2017, 4:36 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: ἐγνώκατε vs. ἐγνώκειτε
Replies: 12
Views: 527

Re: ἐγνώκατε vs. ἐγνώκειτε

Perhaps another example which illustrates the type (or sense) of the aorist / pluperfect is at: Μαρτυρῶ γὰρ ὑμῖν ὅτι, εἰ δυνατόν, τοὺς ὀφθαλμοὺς ὑμῶν ἐξορύξαντες ἂν ἐδώκατέ μοι. Following the pattern of the structure, I assume that δυνατόν has an understood aorist (imperfect) with it. There are also...
by Stephen Hughes
October 23rd, 2017, 4:12 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: "upon this rock" in Matthew 16:18
Replies: 14
Views: 590

Re: "upon this rock" in Matthew 16:18

Hey, Stephen. Thanks for your reply. So, as far as you know, there is no certain way to tell what επι ταύτη τη πέτρα (upon this rock) is referring back to. A fourth possibility to add to three that you are considering is that it may be that Jesus was pointing at the physical ground. Hey, Stephen. Y...
by Stephen Hughes
October 23rd, 2017, 12:15 am
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: ἐγνώκατε vs. ἐγνώκειτε
Replies: 12
Views: 527

Re: ἐγνώκατε vs. ἐγνώκειτε

Ἐγὼ δὲ καὶ τὸν ἄλλον βίον ἔζησα σωφρόνως καὶ πρώτην ταύτην ἔσχηκα διαβολήν: εἰ δέ γε καὶ ἀκόλαστος καὶ ἀσελγὴς ἐτύγχανον, ἐποίησεν ἄν με βελτίω τὸ παρὰ σοῦ τοσαύτας πόλεις πεπιστεῦσθαι. This is perhaps closer to the quality of a saying, as in the Matthean example. Ἀλλ̓ εἰ μὲν ἰδιώτης ἦσθα μουσικῆς,...
by Stephen Hughes
October 22nd, 2017, 11:23 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: ἐγνώκατε vs. ἐγνώκειτε
Replies: 12
Views: 527

Re: ἐγνώκατε vs. ἐγνώκειτε

Mod. Gk. no longer has this idiom. It uses ἄν with the past ind. and θά in the apodosis for ἄν. [A.T. Robertson 'A Grammar of the Greek New Testament' p1013] Did ATR assume a knowledge of Modern Greek on the part of his readers. Without such a background, a casual reader might assume that ἄν had mo...
by Stephen Hughes
October 22nd, 2017, 12:30 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: ἐγνώκατε vs. ἐγνώκειτε
Replies: 12
Views: 527

Re: ἐγνώκατε vs. ἐγνώκειτε

Okay, so it is a past time tense because of the needs of the εἰ ..., ... ἅν formula, but why was it perfect before it was past-ed? Is there a specific meaning for this verb in the perfect? About the formula ... Is there something modal about the past time tenses - is the quality of the indicative di...