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by Eeli Kaikkonen
August 18th, 2019, 5:24 pm
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 74
Views: 8633

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

The parade is a poor analogy if it misses the point. Are the end points and the whole in view (perfective) or not (imperfective)? Whether accomplished from a helicopter or bleacher is a distraction and irrelevant. Again, this shows how metaphor/picture can mislead and trip people up if not careful....
by Eeli Kaikkonen
August 16th, 2019, 2:08 am
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 74
Views: 8633

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

How do you find TOHOTAA ? It looks interesting. How do you think one with relatively light background (well almost none and self taught :) ) in linguistics would get on with it ? I have a University library loan. They don't teach advanced linguistics so nobody else needs it and have had it for coup...
by Eeli Kaikkonen
August 15th, 2019, 2:07 am
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 74
Views: 8633

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

Stirling Bartholomew wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 7:05 pm
There was a time roughly 20 years ago when I thought aspect was comprehensible. Recent discussion doesn't support that hypothesis.
What in this thread makes you feel so? After all, we are talking about tense, not aspect.
by Eeli Kaikkonen
August 14th, 2019, 6:54 pm
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 74
Views: 8633

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

"Remoteness" is another term which Campbell uses with different meaning than linguists. There's also a chapter in TOHOTAA which speaks about remoteness and tense, but it's remoteness in time.
by Eeli Kaikkonen
August 14th, 2019, 5:29 pm
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 74
Views: 8633

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

After reading chapter 23 "Tenselessness" by Jo-Wang Lin in The Oxford Handbook of Tense And Aspect (ed. Binnick) I became (even more) convinced that Koine isn't tenseless. I don't remember the details anymore, I should re-read it with time (sorry for the pun). There are names of languages there whic...
by Eeli Kaikkonen
August 7th, 2019, 3:59 pm
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 74
Views: 8633

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

Siebenthal does mention Porter and Campbell. He says that this is a recent theory found primarily among English-speaking New Testament scholars, which is accurate, and he explains why he does not follow Porter and Campbell in his grammar. He points out two weaknesses in their theory: More Siebentha...
by Eeli Kaikkonen
August 6th, 2019, 2:02 pm
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 74
Views: 8633

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

To be simple and blunt Randall isn't simple but he's blunt when aspect-only theory is discussed. And he knows that himself. But I understand the reasons. I'm not a linguist but I think I have chosen my side, as you can see. Extra advice for free: talk to yourself in Greek, it's good for the soul. A...
by Eeli Kaikkonen
August 4th, 2019, 5:01 am
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 74
Views: 8633

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

It's been argued that this is a proleptic aorist (prophetic aorist), because Paul is prophesying about the Jewish War. Others argue that it's a genuine past tense clause, because it's a post-70 AD interpolation explicitly in reference to the Jewish War (hence εἰς τέλος). So can exegetes reasonably ...
by Eeli Kaikkonen
August 3rd, 2019, 6:40 pm
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 74
Views: 8633

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

I assume that Porter is (correctly) treating ἐζήτουν as imperfect, which would have a continuous aspect. I hope so. Anyways, it's strange that a completely good explanation would need to be replaced. There's no problem in interpreting it as "were seeking". ________________________ Forced re-interpr...
by Eeli Kaikkonen
August 3rd, 2019, 5:52 pm
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 74
Views: 8633

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

Jonathan already said almost enough about John 11:8 (it's not aorist!), but let's say for argument's sake it's aorist... It's dangerous to interpret Porter without further context, but I wonder how he can translate it with English continuous tense ("are seeking") if aspect is important. How can aori...

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