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by RandallButh
September 17th, 2018, 8:11 am
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:25 and the adverbial accusative την αρχην
Replies: 27
Views: 711

Re: John 8:25 and the adverbial accusative την αρχην

Demetrius, De eloquentia 199 Καὶ ὅλως τῇ φυσικῇ τάξει τῶν ὀνομάτων χρηστέον, ὡς τὸ Ἐπίδαμνός ἐστι πόλις ἐν δεξιᾷ ἐσπλέοντι εἰς τὸν Ἰόνιον κόλπον· πρῶτον μὲν γὰρ ὠνόμασται τὸ περὶ οὗ, δεύτερον δὲ ὃ τοῦτό ἐστιν, ὅτι πόλις, καὶ τὰ ἄλλα ἐφεξῆς. τὸ περὶ οὗ = topic = Randy's item relating to context ὃ το...
by RandallButh
September 17th, 2018, 8:10 am
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:25 and the adverbial accusative την αρχην
Replies: 27
Views: 711

Re: John 8:25 and the adverbial accusative την αρχην

Demetrius, De eloquentia 199 Καὶ ὅλως τῇ φυσικῇ τάξει τῶν ὀνομάτων χρηστέον, ὡς τὸ Ἐπίδαμνός ἐστι πόλις ἐν δεξιᾷ ἐσπλέοντι εἰς τὸν Ἰόνιον κόλπον· πρῶτον μὲν γὰρ ὠνόμασται τὸ περὶ οὗ, δεύτερον δὲ ὃ τοῦτό ἐστιν, ὅτι πόλις, καὶ τὰ ἄλλα ἐφεξῆς. τὸ περὶ οὗ = topic = Randy's item relating to context ὃ το...
by RandallButh
September 17th, 2018, 7:52 am
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:25 and the adverbial accusative την αρχην
Replies: 27
Views: 711

Re: John 8:25 and the adverbial accusative την αρχην

Ancients discussed simple structures vs. convoluted "periodic" structures. They assumed Greek word order conventions and read whatever the author wrote. See Demetrios. The gospels are generally in "simple" sentences. For "periodic (elaborate)" see Luke 1.1-4, Acts 1.1-4 and many examples in Hebrews,...
by RandallButh
September 16th, 2018, 9:31 am
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:25 and the adverbial accusative την αρχην
Replies: 27
Views: 711

Re: John 8:25 and the adverbial accusative την αρχην

On targums and Hebrew midrashic influence, see the response at original thread on Jn 8.25. On good Greek: Good Greek uses word order in nuanced Greek ways. As I write this I had just read Jam 3.8: τὴν δὲ γλῶσσαν οὐδεὶς δύναται ἀνθρώπων δαμάσαι· Excellent word order. first item relating to context, ...
by RandallButh
September 15th, 2018, 2:42 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:25 and the adverbial accusative την αρχην
Replies: 27
Views: 711

Re: John 8:25 and the adverbial accusative την αρχην

Good Greek uses word order in nuanced Greek ways.
by RandallButh
September 15th, 2018, 11:43 am
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:25 and the adverbial accusative την αρχην
Replies: 27
Views: 711

Re: John 8:25 and the adverbial accusative την αρχην

Actually the targum (a later development) is compsed with older midrashic material in mind and that midrashic material is behind John's opening. This material is reflected in the all encompassing blessing recorded in the Mishnah from earlier practice known and shared by John ברוך אתה יהוה שהכל נהיה ...
by RandallButh
September 15th, 2018, 3:14 am
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:25 and the adverbial accusative την αρχην
Replies: 27
Views: 711

Re: John 8:25 and the adverbial accusative την αρχην

Ναί yes, Stirling, I have long commented that John is good Greek and the most consistently good Greek in the Gospels. The question is deceptive among Gospel readers because John has a limited vocabulary and comes across as 'easy'. One explanation for this is that the stories represent the preaching/...
by RandallButh
September 6th, 2018, 2:06 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: Legitimate word forms?
Replies: 28
Views: 707

Re: Legitimate word forms?

this may help reshape the discussion in the proper directions. μετοξύ is a form whose development is not clear according to data presented, but it is an attested form. Note well, it is not evidence that [ α ] was pronounced the same as [ ο ]. It is only evidence that an alternative, dialectical form...
by RandallButh
September 5th, 2018, 4:12 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: Legitimate word forms?
Replies: 28
Views: 707

Re: Legitimate word forms?

On system and phonology, there are myriad examples. In Greek, there was a great vowel shift 3cBCE-1cBCE that spread around the Mediterranean in the world after Alexander the Great. The following vowels merged: ει and ι αι and ε ω and ο οι and υ Phonologically, what explains all of these mergers? The...