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by Stephen Nelson
August 17th, 2019, 6:18 pm
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 83
Views: 43204

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

Now that the proposition is clear (and here I am assuming that what Stephen Nelson and I cobbled together in the last couple of exchanges is what Campbell and others mean) it is easy to see the objections against it - though as I said I don't have the data - so your examples are helpful. your quest...
by Stephen Nelson
August 17th, 2019, 6:17 pm
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 83
Views: 43204

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

Now that the proposition is clear (and here I am assuming that what Stephen Nelson and I cobbled together in the last couple of exchanges is what Campbell and others mean) it is easy to see the objections against it - though as I said I don't have the data - so your examples are helpful. your quest...
by Stephen Nelson
August 17th, 2019, 12:28 am
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 83
Views: 43204

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

That said, this quote may slowly be getting closer to the point. If "yonder, there" are spatial (which I'm happy to accept) and that the meaning of them is carried by an augment/prefix/suffix what have you, is the concept we are trying to represent here then something like this. I'll serialize in a...
by Stephen Nelson
August 16th, 2019, 8:25 pm
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 83
Views: 43204

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

No, my question is very simple. As an example, how is "I threw the ball" spatial ? I can understand that having the thrown the ball it is now remote from me. But the action itself was at the time very close to me indeed - my arm did it while attached to the rest of me. So how is a verbal action, co...
by Stephen Nelson
August 16th, 2019, 7:00 pm
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 83
Views: 43204

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

Cross-linguistically then, the path of development is that first the particle (the syllabic augment) had a spatial meaning, then later a temporal meaning, and finally became bleached semantically and grammaticalized as a marker of past tense. By the Homeric period the spatial meaning has already en...
by Stephen Nelson
August 16th, 2019, 6:52 pm
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 83
Views: 43204

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

I'm answering my own question with information I found in "A Greek Verb Revisited", which I should have finished reading before starting this discussion :lol: Here is what Peter J. Gentry says in his article (Chapter 11, Pg. 359), "The Function of the Augment in Hellenistic Greek", citing "The Evol...
by Stephen Nelson
August 16th, 2019, 5:53 pm
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 83
Views: 43204

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

I'm answering my own question with information I found in "A Greek Verb Revisited", which I should have finished reading before starting this discussion :lol: Here is what Peter J. Gentry says in his article (Chapter 11, Pg. 359), "The Function of the Augment in Hellenistic Greek", citing "The Evolu...
by Stephen Nelson
August 14th, 2019, 2:53 pm
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 83
Views: 43204

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

Sorry, I think I may be abusing this forum by prolonging this closed discussion. But I'd like to ask more questions, in case anyone is still following this... So far the feedback has been very helpful. Another reference that I keep encountering is to the fact that there exist other 'tenseless' langu...
by Stephen Nelson
August 9th, 2019, 12:15 pm
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 83
Views: 43204

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

Perhaps someone could help me answer one more question. I keep hearing Constantine Campbell and others repeatedly reference a statistic about verbs in the aorist, without substantiation as to what the data are based on - Paraphrasing: "Aorist indicatives refer to the past 85% of the time." And, by c...
by Stephen Nelson
August 7th, 2019, 4:50 pm
Forum: The Verb in Koine Greek
Topic: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference
Replies: 83
Views: 43204

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

PS: the ancients also rejected the theory, preemptively. The ancient grammarians were the ones who came up with the temporal definitions of indicative time, on their own, and as mother-tongue speakers. A citation to that sources would be amazing, if available. Thanks! See here for a discussion of o...

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