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by Scott Lawson
August 8th, 2021, 10:27 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 37525

Re: John 8:58

Maybe here: https://archive.org/details/patrologiae_cursus_completus_gr_vol_059/page/n301/mode/2up It’s actually on page 305 and Chrysostom doesn’t change the phrase at all. It reads πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί.  I think Jonathan wanted to know what Chrysostom was suggesting as an alternative. δι...
by Scott Lawson
August 8th, 2021, 12:09 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 37525

Re: John 8:58

Eeli Kaikkonen wrote: August 6th, 2021, 11:19 am Maybe here: https://archive.org/details/patrologiae ... 1/mode/2up
It’s actually on page 305 and Chrysostom doesn’t change the phrase at all. It reads πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί. 
by Scott Lawson
August 8th, 2021, 10:47 am
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 37525

Re: John 8:58

I had also read some of the DeBuhn - Bowman debate referred to in the wikipedia article, but not all of it. On the other hand, who has read it entirely? Anyway it has much discussion about PPA. As far as I can remember it wasn't anything groundbreaking, and maybe neither of the participants was ver...
by Scott Lawson
August 5th, 2021, 2:08 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 37525

Re: John 8:58

I meant to say gradation not graduation.
by Scott Lawson
August 5th, 2021, 1:19 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 37525

Re: John 8:58

Perhaps state verbs or more specifically the Greek to be verb can have a telic force when used in the sense of existence. So that the force of the present state of existence is the focus. The beginning of existence isn’t in view but the graduation to the present state of existence is. This may expla...
by Scott Lawson
August 5th, 2021, 12:51 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 37525

Re: John 8:58

The use of the present tense form γεννα to translate a Hebrew perfect may give support to my hypothesis that the present tense form was viewed as a suitable substitute for the perfect. However my hypothesis also posits that it’s only when a perfect tense form isn’t available and γεγέννηκα is availab...
by Scott Lawson
August 5th, 2021, 11:46 am
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 37525

Re: John 8:58

It's important to understand that nobody has said this sentence is unintelligible. It's just grammatically strange. It doesn't exclude referring to the existence of Jesus before Abraham. On the contrary, it states at least that much. But it makes it in a nonstandard way and raises the question: is ...
by Scott Lawson
August 5th, 2021, 10:24 am
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 37525

Re: John 8:58

Now Barry can comment on that himself, but actually he doesn't say that the infinitive would get its time from the main verb. Only that it would show prior action. That's different than getting time from the main verb. A logical companion to "would show prior action" would be that "t...
by Scott Lawson
August 4th, 2021, 7:04 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 37525

Re: John 8:58

Stephen did say that the question Jesus was responding to wasn’t the one closest in context (how old are you?) but rather Who are you. I’ve had enough. Can you stop claiming I said things I did not say? And, no, I don’t want you to quote something yet again you did not understand. Ok…even though I ...
by Scott Lawson
August 4th, 2021, 5:53 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 37525

Re: John 8:58

Eeli, Stephen did say that the question Jesus was responding to wasn’t the one closest in context (how old are you?) but rather Who are you. That being so he had to see εγω ειμι as self identification. That can only mean that εγω ειμι is a name and has no syntactical relationship to the dependent ad...

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