Eeli,
I wasn’t trying to resolve the issue by having Stephen translate it I was trying to understand his view of the syntax by making him translate it. He didn’t do so but pointed me to the “standard” translations which opened him up to being misunderstood.
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- August 4th, 2021, 5:44 pm
- Forum: New Testament
- Topic: John 8:58
- Replies: 209
- Views: 35697
- August 4th, 2021, 5:27 pm
- Forum: New Testament
- Topic: John 8:58
- Replies: 209
- Views: 35697
Re: John 8:58
Eeli, My line of reasoning has been this: 1.) A dependent adverbial clause has to modify a verb. And it has to have it’s sense completed by it’s main clause. 2.) Infinitives, like participles, have controlling verbs which sets their relative time. So what is the controlling verb of the infinitive he...
- August 4th, 2021, 5:11 pm
- Forum: New Testament
- Topic: John 8:58
- Replies: 209
- Views: 35697
Re: John 8:58
Stephen you said this: “I don't have a problem with the standard translations. My "grammatical" point is that that the clash in reference times is not to be resolved grammatically, because the grammar doesn't license a particular way to resolve the clash. The participants have to bring in ...
- August 4th, 2021, 5:00 pm
- Forum: New Testament
- Topic: John 8:58
- Replies: 209
- Views: 35697
Re: John 8:58
And Stephen you responded with an objection to my translation of εγω ειμι with the Eternal but you didn’t take objection to the construction of the sentence which has before Abraham came to be standing alone with no connection to The Eternal. So I rightly took your objection to mean that εγω ειμι th...
- August 4th, 2021, 4:45 pm
- Forum: New Testament
- Topic: John 8:58
- Replies: 209
- Views: 35697
Re: John 8:58
Stephen,
Answer my question. Is πριν Αβρααμ γενεσθαι a dependent adverbial clause? And if it is what is the verb that it is modifying?
Answer my question. Is πριν Αβρααμ γενεσθαι a dependent adverbial clause? And if it is what is the verb that it is modifying?
- August 4th, 2021, 4:38 pm
- Forum: New Testament
- Topic: John 8:58
- Replies: 209
- Views: 35697
Re: John 8:58
Ok…then what is it? I asked you for a translation and you pointed me to the standard translations.
- August 4th, 2021, 4:11 pm
- Forum: New Testament
- Topic: John 8:58
- Replies: 209
- Views: 35697
Re: John 8:58
That’s good to hear! Somehow I’ve evidently muddled up my point. But your comments are what I’ve been saying all along.
- August 4th, 2021, 3:57 pm
- Forum: New Testament
- Topic: John 8:58
- Replies: 209
- Views: 35697
Re: John 8:58
Eeli, If I’m being dumb about my view of the infinitive and its controlling verb then so is Barry. What he said is exactly the point I’ve been making. Barry said: “I see this migrated over from the Facebook discussion. I'm still stuck on πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι. πρίν is really the key word here, before...
- August 4th, 2021, 12:55 pm
- Forum: New Testament
- Topic: John 8:58
- Replies: 209
- Views: 35697
Re: John 8:58
Eeli,
You said that you think I’m reading Wallace incorrectly on the controlling verbs for infinitives. I request that you make sure that I’m reading Wallace wrong and explain to me where I am wrong.
You said that you think I’m reading Wallace incorrectly on the controlling verbs for infinitives. I request that you make sure that I’m reading Wallace wrong and explain to me where I am wrong.
- August 4th, 2021, 11:17 am
- Forum: New Testament
- Topic: John 8:58
- Replies: 209
- Views: 35697
Re: John 8:58
Eeli, Thank you for your gentle words. But please note that Stephen has opined that εγω ειμι is a name. What that leads to is that εγω ειμι is not grammatically/syntactically connected to the adverbial dependent clause πριν Αβρααμ γενεσθαι. Dependent clauses get their completed thought from the main...