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by Andrew Chapman
November 3rd, 2013, 2:53 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: ὁ βασιλεὺς Ἰσραήλ: objective or subjective genitive?
Replies: 64
Views: 17256

Re: ὁ βασιλεὺς Ἰσραήλ: objective or subjective genitive?

'Darling, what does 'the language of love' mean to you?' 'If you do something by word or deed, that communicates your love to me, .. that is the language of love.' 'I thought so, that's the objective genitive.' Silence. (This 'metalanguage', or this technical grammatical terminology, is evidently no...
by Andrew Chapman
November 1st, 2013, 7:21 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: ὁ βασιλεὺς Ἰσραήλ: objective or subjective genitive?
Replies: 64
Views: 17256

Re: ὁ βασιλεὺς Ἰσραήλ: objective or subjective genitive?

May I ask you, Andrew, what you will achieve by doing that? What is the benefit of knowing what name every useage of the genitive has? One perhaps less important reason is that this system is used not only by Wallace, but by a whole tradition of grammarians, both classical and New Testament. I woul...
by Andrew Chapman
November 1st, 2013, 2:41 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: Colossians 1:11 κατὰ τὸ κράτος τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ
Replies: 15
Views: 6001

Re: Colossians 1:11 κατὰ τὸ κράτος τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ

The commentary on μετ’ ἀγγέλων δυνάμεως αὐτοῦ in 2 Thessalonians 1:7 -: καὶ ὑμῖν τοῖς θλιβομένοις ἄνεσιν μεθ’ ἡμῶν ἐν τῇ ἀποκαλύψει τοῦ κυρίου Ἰησοῦ ἀπ’ οὐρανοῦ μετ’ ἀγγέλων δυνάμεως αὐτοῦ ἐν φλογὶ πυρός, διδόντος ἐκδίκησιν τοῖς μὴ εἰδόσι θεὸν.. (7-8a) has striking parallels with that on the similar...
by Andrew Chapman
November 1st, 2013, 8:41 am
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: ὁ βασιλεὺς Ἰσραήλ: objective or subjective genitive?
Replies: 64
Views: 17256

Re: ὁ βασιλεὺς Ἰσραήλ: objective or subjective genitive?

We really don't need any metalanguage to help us decipher the meaning of expressions such as "the love of language" and "the language of love." We may say that "of language" represents an "objective" function of the prepositional phase "of language"...
by Andrew Chapman
October 31st, 2013, 7:30 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: ὁ βασιλεὺς Ἰσραήλ: objective or subjective genitive?
Replies: 64
Views: 17256

Re: ὁ βασιλεὺς Ἰσραήλ: objective or subjective genitive?

The abridged version, called Basics of New Testament Syntax, copyright 2000, 'AER Edition January 2009', still has 'subjective' at page 54.

Andrew
by Andrew Chapman
October 31st, 2013, 12:36 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: ὁ βασιλεὺς Ἰσραήλ: objective or subjective genitive?
Replies: 64
Views: 17256

Re: ὁ βασιλεὺς Ἰσραήλ: objective or subjective genitive?

Thanks, Jonathan, those are good examples. As you say, the context usually makes it obvious, at least in practical matters, such as hunters shooting or being shot. Perhaps when it comes to matters of revelation regarding spiritual realities, we don't really have a reference point with which to remov...
by Andrew Chapman
October 30th, 2013, 4:21 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: ὁ βασιλεὺς Ἰσραήλ: objective or subjective genitive?
Replies: 64
Views: 17256

Re: ὁ βασιλεὺς Ἰσραήλ: objective or subjective genitive?

Thanks, Jonathan, very much. I wanted to check that I was right in thinking that Wallace has it the wrong way around here, according to his own way of thinking. I didn't mean to suggest that I necessarily accept his scheme, although I have found found it very helpful in beginning to think about the ...
by Andrew Chapman
October 29th, 2013, 3:06 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: ὁ βασιλεὺς Ἰσραήλ: objective or subjective genitive?
Replies: 64
Views: 17256

ὁ βασιλεὺς Ἰσραήλ: objective or subjective genitive?

In Daniel Wallace's Exegetical Syntax of the New Testament, he includes a 'Genitive of subordination (over)' in his list of types of genitive. He says it relates only to head nouns whose meaning conveys the idea of authority, citing βασιλεῦς and ἂρχων in particular. He says that 'for the most part, ...
by Andrew Chapman
October 29th, 2013, 1:10 pm
Forum: Church Fathers and Patristic Greek Texts
Topic: σαυτοῦ
Replies: 26
Views: 7700

Re: σαυτοῦ

As a postscript, I think I should retract my suggestion that the genitive is the primary form of σεαυτοῦ/σαυτοῦ. Since it is formed from σέ, the accusative form of the second person personal pronoun, it makes more sense to me now to think of the accusative as primary. Wenham lists it in that form: σ...
by Andrew Chapman
October 25th, 2013, 12:59 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: Colossians 1:11 κατὰ τὸ κράτος τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ
Replies: 15
Views: 6001

Re: Colossians 1:11 κατὰ τὸ κράτος τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ

Thanks, David, for your explanation, which I appreciate. I came across this passage in Zerwick's 'Biblical Greek': This book [Deissmann's Union with Christ in St Paul in the Light of his Use of the Genitives'] shows how the grammarians' classification of the uses of the genitive, useful as it may be...

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