I'm looking for examples in the GNT of indirect statements which use a participle for the verb in the indirect statement. - can anyone help with a list of good examples please?
Failing the GNT the LXX would do.
Thanks
Shirley Rollinson
Indirect statements using participles
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Re: Indirect statements using participles
ATR discusses this in several places, pages 864, 1040-42, 1122-24. The treatment of indirect discourse in the reference grammars is often somewhat less than perfectly lucid. Here are some potential examples pulled from ATR. It isn’t a simple process pulling citations from ATR. His discussion is often overly complex and it isn’t always perfectly clear what he intends a citation to represent. For that reason all of these need to be double checked.Shirley Rollinson wrote:I'm looking for examples in the GNT of indirect statements which use a participle for the verb in the indirect statement. - can anyone help with a list of good examples please?
Failing the GNT the LXX would do.
Thanks
Shirley Rollinson
Matt 1:18, 6:16, 12:44, Mk 8:24, 9:1, Lk 4:23, 9:49, 21:20, 23:2, Acts 8:23, 9:2, 9:12, 10:3, 19:35, 26:13, 2Cor 12:2, Heb 13:23, 2Pet 1:18, Rev 9:1
Matt. 1:18 Τοῦ δὲ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ ἡ γένεσις οὕτως ἦν. μνηστευθείσης τῆς μητρὸς αὐτοῦ Μαρίας τῷ Ἰωσήφ, πρὶν ἢ συνελθεῖν αὐτοὺς εὑρέθη ἐν γαστρὶ ἔχουσα ἐκ πνεύματος ἁγίου.
Matt. 6:16 Ὅταν δὲ νηστεύητε, μὴ γίνεσθε ὡς οἱ ὑποκριταὶ σκυθρωποί, ἀφανίζουσιν γὰρ τὰ πρόσωπα αὐτῶν ὅπως φανῶσιν τοῖς ἀνθρώποις νηστεύοντες· ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, ἀπέχουσιν τὸν μισθὸν αὐτῶν.
Matt. 12:44 τότε λέγει· εἰς τὸν οἶκόν μου ἐπιστρέψω ὅθεν ἐξῆλθον· καὶ ἐλθὸν εὑρίσκει σχολάζοντα σεσαρωμένον καὶ κεκοσμημένον.
Mark 8:24 καὶ ἀναβλέψας ἔλεγεν· βλέπω τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ὅτι ὡς δένδρα ὁρῶ περιπατοῦντας.
Mark 9:1 Καὶ ἔλεγεν αὐτοῖς· ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι εἰσίν τινες ὧδε τῶν ἑστηκότων οἵτινες οὐ μὴ γεύσωνται θανάτου ἕως ἂν ἴδωσιν τὴν βασιλείαν τοῦ θεοῦ ἐληλυθυῖαν ἐν δυνάμει.
Luke 4:23 καὶ εἶπεν πρὸς αὐτούς· πάντως ἐρεῖτέ μοι τὴν παραβολὴν ταύτην· ἰατρέ, θεράπευσον σεαυτόν· ὅσα ἠκούσαμεν γενόμενα εἰς τὴν Καφαρναοὺμ ποίησον καὶ ὧδε ἐν τῇ πατρίδι σου.
Luke 9:49 Ἀποκριθεὶς δὲ Ἰωάννης εἶπεν· ἐπιστάτα, εἴδομέν τινα ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί σου ἐκβάλλοντα δαιμόνια καὶ ἐκωλύομεν αὐτόν, ὅτι οὐκ ἀκολουθεῖ μεθ᾿ ἡμῶν.
Luke 21:20 Ὅταν δὲ ἴδητε κυκλουμένην ὑπὸ στρατοπέδων Ἰερουσαλήμ, τότε γνῶτε ὅτι ἤγγικεν ἡ ἐρήμωσις αὐτῆς.
Luke 23:2 Ἤρξαντο δὲ κατηγορεῖν αὐτοῦ λέγοντες· τοῦτον εὕραμεν διαστρέφοντα τὸ ἔθνος ἡμῶν καὶ κωλύοντα φόρους Καίσαρι διδόναι καὶ λέγοντα ἑαυτὸν χριστὸν βασιλέα εἶναι.
Acts 8:23 εἰς γὰρ χολὴν πικρίας καὶ σύνδεσμον ἀδικίας ὁρῶ σε ὄντα.
Acts 9:2 ᾐτήσατο παρ᾿ αὐτοῦ ἐπιστολὰς εἰς Δαμασκὸν πρὸς τὰς συναγωγάς, ὅπως ἐάν τινας εὕρῃ τῆς ὁδοῦ ὄντας, ἄνδρας τε καὶ γυναῖκας, δεδεμένους ἀγάγῃ εἰς Ἰερουσαλήμ.
Acts 9:12 καὶ εἶδεν ἄνδρα [ἐν ὁράματι] Ἁνανίαν ὀνόματι εἰσελθόντα καὶ ἐπιθέντα αὐτῷ [τὰς] χεῖρας ὅπως ἀναβλέψῃ.
Acts 10:3 εἶδεν ἐν ὁράματι φανερῶς ὡσεὶ περὶ ὥραν ἐνάτην τῆς ἡμέρας ἄγγελον τοῦ θεοῦ εἰσελθόντα πρὸς αὐτὸν καὶ εἰπόντα αὐτῷ· Κορνήλιε.
Acts 19:35 Καταστείλας δὲ ὁ γραμματεὺς τὸν ὄχλον φησίν· ἄνδρες Ἐφέσιοι, τίς γάρ ἐστιν ἀνθρώπων ὃς οὐ γινώσκει τὴν Ἐφεσίων πόλιν νεωκόρον οὖσαν τῆς μεγάλης Ἀρτέμιδος καὶ τοῦ διοπετοῦς;
Acts 26:13 ἡμέρας μέσης κατὰ τὴν ὁδὸν εἶδον, βασιλεῦ, οὐρανόθεν ὑπὲρ τὴν λαμπρότητα τοῦ ἡλίου περιλάμψαν με φῶς καὶ τοὺς σὺν ἐμοὶ πορευομένους.
2Cor. 12:2 οἶδα ἄνθρωπον ἐν Χριστῷ πρὸ ἐτῶν δεκατεσσάρων, εἴτε ἐν σώματι οὐκ οἶδα, εἴτε ἐκτὸς τοῦ σώματος οὐκ οἶδα, ὁ θεὸς οἶδεν, ἁρπαγέντα τὸν τοιοῦτον ἕως τρίτου οὐρανοῦ.
Heb. 13:23 Γινώσκετε τὸν ἀδελφὸν ἡμῶν Τιμόθεον ἀπολελυμένον, μεθ᾿ οὗ ἐὰν τάχιον ἔρχηται ὄψομαι ὑμᾶς.
2Pet. 1:18 καὶ ταύτην τὴν φωνὴν ἡμεῖς ἠκούσαμεν ἐξ οὐρανοῦ ἐνεχθεῖσαν σὺν αὐτῷ ὄντες ἐν τῷ ἁγίῳ ὄρει.
Rev. 9:1 Καὶ ὁ πέμπτος ἄγγελος ἐσάλπισεν· καὶ εἶδον ἀστέρα ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ πεπτωκότα εἰς τὴν γῆν, καὶ ἐδόθη αὐτῷ ἡ κλεὶς τοῦ φρέατος τῆς ἀβύσσου
C. Stirling Bartholomew
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Re: Indirect statements using participles
Thank you - and thanks for giving the fiull Greek text
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Re: Indirect statements using participles
I looked over each of these and some of them are syntactically complex. I omitted
Luke 10:18 εἶπεν δὲ αὐτοῖς· ἐθεώρουν τὸν σατανᾶν ὡς ἀστραπὴν ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ πεσόντα.
For some time now I have been wondering why grammarians bother to talk about indirect discourse, It seems to be a very fuzzy category and I don't see how it is used other than to distinguish direct speech from other forms of reporting cognitive actions like seeing, knowing, observing. If the category indirect speech was limited to speech acts reported indirectly it would make more sense but it is a very inclusive category, the boundaries of which vary from one grammarian to another.
Luke 10:18 εἶπεν δὲ αὐτοῖς· ἐθεώρουν τὸν σατανᾶν ὡς ἀστραπὴν ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ πεσόντα.
For some time now I have been wondering why grammarians bother to talk about indirect discourse, It seems to be a very fuzzy category and I don't see how it is used other than to distinguish direct speech from other forms of reporting cognitive actions like seeing, knowing, observing. If the category indirect speech was limited to speech acts reported indirectly it would make more sense but it is a very inclusive category, the boundaries of which vary from one grammarian to another.
C. Stirling Bartholomew
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Re: Indirect statements using participles
I spent some time this morning reviewing the treatment of Oratio Obliqua indirect discourse in Smyth (2589-2635) and G. Cooper (vol. 1, 54.5.0-54.6.11) and comparing these to the treatment found various places in ATR. Perhaps the most obvious exegetical use of the “rules” for Oratio Obliqua would be to transform O.O. back into O.R. (direct speech).Stirling Bartholomew wrote: For some time now I have been wondering why grammarians bother to talk about indirect discourse, It seems to be a very fuzzy category and I don't see how it is used other than to distinguish direct speech from other forms of reporting cognitive actions like seeing, knowing, observing. If the category indirect speech was limited to speech acts reported indirectly it would make more sense but it is a very inclusive category, the boundaries of which vary from one grammarian to another.
C. Stirling Bartholomew
Re: Indirect statements using participles
The problem is that if grammarians limited themselves to categories that weren't fuzzy, there would be very little to talk about at all...Stirling Bartholomew wrote:For some time now I have been wondering why grammarians bother to talk about indirect discourse, It seems to be a very fuzzy category and I don't see how it is used other than to distinguish direct speech from other forms of reporting cognitive actions like seeing, knowing, observing. If the category indirect speech was limited to speech acts reported indirectly it would make more sense but it is a very inclusive category, the boundaries of which vary from one grammarian to another.
Mike Aubrey, Linguist
SIL International
Koine-Greek.com
SIL International
Koine-Greek.com