Heb 2:5-9 in NIV - αὐτόν as "them"

David Lim
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Re: Heb 2:5-9 in NIV - αὐτόν as "them"

Post by David Lim » June 29th, 2013, 9:30 pm

Shirley Rollinson wrote:I'm a "dearly-beloved-brethren" same as the rest of the guys :-)
This reminds me that I've noticed the NKJV use both "brothers" and "brethren" to render the same word, but I'm not sure whether it's because of this or not. Here are the instances of "brethren" in the NKJV: http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?se ... =bookorder. I also don't know why the ASV uses "brothers" in Num 36:11 and Acts 28:11 but "brethren" everywhere else. "brethren" is plural by the way, so we can't say "a brethren" unless we invent it. ;)
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Bryant J. Williams III
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Re: Heb 2:5-9 in NIV - αὐτόν as "them"

Post by Bryant J. Williams III » June 29th, 2013, 11:04 pm

Dear Jason,

Sorry for the late reply. Preparing to teach Children's Church this Sunday. That is going to be interesting teaching K-5 on the capturing of the Ark of the Covenant and King Saul.

Regarding the quote from Psalms. It should be translated as consistent with the Hebrew wording when translated to English as much as possible unless doing so creates confusion in communication. That said though, to use the plural when the singular is in the original language will confuse the average person in the pew unless a note is given to indicate why the plural is used. Most of us on this Forum, or B-Hebrew Discussion List, etc. do understand and it is very unwise to create confusion when doing otherwise won't do so. BTW, I DO understand the whole issue of Formal Equivalence and Dynamic Equivalence since I am member B-Translation Discussion List.

Regarding not using my full name. When I switched over from the B-Greek Discussion List to the B-Greek Forum I used BryantIII as my Login ID. Did't think much of it at the time. Can't change it now anyways, but I figured most of those on this list would make the connection from BryantIII to ...

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
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Shirley Rollinson
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Re: Heb 2:5-9 in NIV - αὐτόν as "them"

Post by Shirley Rollinson » June 30th, 2013, 9:32 pm

BryantIII wrote:Dear Jason,

Sorry for the late reply. Preparing to teach Children's Church this Sunday. That is going to be interesting teaching K-5 on the capturing of the Ark of the Covenant and King Saul
Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
Did you tell them about the golden hemorrhoids ? :lol:
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Bryant J. Williams III
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Re: Heb 2:5-9 in NIV - αὐτόν as "them"

Post by Bryant J. Williams III » June 30th, 2013, 11:58 pm

Dear Shirley,

Fortunately, I did not go there. I preferred not to "rest on my laurels" too much now (pun intended) :lol:

I did asked them what a "good luck charm" was and the like. They answered the question with excellent questions. The we talked about Saul and how the people rejected God and got what they asked. Next week we will deal with the consequences of getting what one ask's.

En Xristwi,

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
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Vasile Stancu
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Re: Heb 2:5-9 in NIV - αὐτόν as "them"

Post by Vasile Stancu » July 1st, 2013, 4:21 pm

Jason Hare wrote:... The new 2011 edition of the New International Version reflects an interesting change here, since they understand (and rightly so, I think)...
In my culture, I sometimes hear the term 'dogmatic translation', where the translator's care is not to convey the true meaning of the text, but the 'true interpretation' of it. I think this is one of such cases.
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MAubrey
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Re: Heb 2:5-9 in NIV - αὐτόν as "them"

Post by MAubrey » July 1st, 2013, 5:46 pm

Vasile Stancu wrote:
Jason Hare wrote:... The new 2011 edition of the New International Version reflects an interesting change here, since they understand (and rightly so, I think)...
In my culture, I sometimes hear the term 'dogmatic translation', where the translator's care is not to convey the true meaning of the text, but the 'true interpretation' of it. I think this is one of such cases.
Do you have any evidence that this is the case? Or is it just a feeling you have because you disagree with them?
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Vasile Stancu
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Re: Heb 2:5-9 in NIV - αὐτόν as "them"

Post by Vasile Stancu » July 1st, 2013, 6:24 pm

I just said, 'I think'… Why not take it as such?… Indeed, the feeling that I have is that such traslations/translators suppose that my understading ability today is somewhat inferior to that of the people who were the original recepients of such mesagges/texts. I wonder whether they really are qualified to make such supposition.
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MAubrey
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Re: Heb 2:5-9 in NIV - αὐτόν as "them"

Post by MAubrey » July 1st, 2013, 10:50 pm

Vasile Stancu wrote:I just said, 'I think'… Why not take it as such?…
That's precisely how I took it.
Vasile Stancu wrote: Indeed, the feeling that I have is that such traslations/translators suppose that my understading ability today is somewhat inferior to that of the people who were the original recepients of such mesagges/texts. I wonder whether they really are qualified to make such supposition.
Well, you'll be relieved to know that your "feeling" is wrong and they're not making such a supposition. And thus, there's nothing to wonder about.
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