Conditional in Joh 18,36

Peter Streitenberger
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Re: Conditional in Joh 18,36

Post by Peter Streitenberger » November 7th, 2013, 10:01 am

Dear Prof. Conrad,
the Author classified Mat 24,43 in the group present Irrealis and translated "Wenn der Hausherr wüsste....würde er wach bleiben und nicht zulassen, dass eingebrochen wird".
That means he used the German present subjunctive and placed it in the present not in the past as you have proposed.
Yours
Peter. Germany
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cwconrad
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Re: Conditional in Joh 18,36

Post by cwconrad » November 7th, 2013, 10:36 am

Peter Streitenberger wrote:Dear Prof. Conrad,
the Author classified Mat 24,43 in the group present Irrealis and translated "Wenn der Hausherr wüsste....würde er wach bleiben und nicht zulassen, dass eingebrochen wird".
That means he used the German present subjunctive and placed it in the present not in the past as you have proposed.
Yours
Peter. Germany
Which means that he split the difference the other way. "Six of one and half a dozen of the others," so to speak.
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οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

Vasile Stancu
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Re: Conditional in Joh 18,36

Post by Vasile Stancu » November 9th, 2013, 2:14 pm

May I add one more 'split'... In the electronic German version that I have, John 18:36, reads, '... so hätten meine Diener gekämpft...' I believe that in Matthew 24:43 a general situation is described, i.e. 'when this occurs (in general)... that is to be expected', whereas in John 18:36, we have a certain sequence of real events, the logic of which requires that the apodosis be logically judged, at least, to have a past meaning, whatever form it takes according to the rules various languages apply in translating such a case.
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cwconrad
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Re: Conditional in Joh 18,36

Post by cwconrad » November 9th, 2013, 4:08 pm

Vasile Stancu wrote:May I add one more 'split'... In the electronic German version that I have, John 18:36, reads, '... so hätten meine Diener gekämpft...' I believe that in Matthew 24:43 a general situation is described, i.e. 'when this occurs (in general)... that is to be expected', whereas in John 18:36, we have a certain sequence of real events, the logic of which requires that the apodosis be logically judged, at least, to have a past meaning, whatever form it takes according to the rules various languages apply in translating such a case.
So hätte ich selbst lieber gescrieben, eher als präsens irrealis entweder im Englischen oder im Deutschen.
That's what I would have preferred myself, frankly, rather than the present counterfactual representation in the English (or German).
0 x
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

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