There are two ways of understanding how prepositions function with their noun or nominal phrase.
Some people hold that prepositions have a meaning of their own and that their use with a particular case is arbitrary and for historical reasons, while others hold that prepositions "modify" the intrinsic meaning of the case that they govern. There may not be an either / or choice in the way of taking them - that is to say that even at the time of the New Testament some could be understood in one way and some in another.
Would a prepostion be pronounced "closer" to its phrase for a preposition that develops or further defines the meaning of the case of the noun that it goes with, or for a preposition that has its own meaning and applies or uses that meaning together with the nominal phrase that it goes with?
If that decision were clear, then perhaps the phrasology of a verse might give a hint as to whether a preposition in a given instance were to be taken one way or the other.
Have others reached pausible conclusions about this - am I watering dead wood - or is it something worth pursuing?
Sentence stress and how prepostions collocate
-
- Posts: 3323
- Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am
Sentence stress and how prepostions collocate
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
-
- Posts: 3351
- Joined: May 11th, 2011, 10:51 am
- Location: Melbourne
- Contact:
Re: Sentence stress and how prepostions collocate
These are two different understandings of the syntax, and they may even be valid at different times in the history of Greek. Though there may be certain syntactic differences (e.g., anastrophe), I'm not aware of a semantic difference, especially one that can be affected by "sentence stress." (I am also unclear what that is supposed to mean, but in Greek it has a strong preference for the beginning of a large prosodic domain.)Stephen Hughes wrote:There are two ways of understanding how prepositions function with their noun or nominal phrase.
Some people hold that prepositions have a meaning of their own and that their use with a particular case is arbitrary and for historical reasons, while others hold that prepositions "modify" the intrinsic meaning of the case that they govern.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Melbourne, Australia
-
- Posts: 3323
- Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am
Re: Sentence stress and how prepostions collocate
Sentence stress is the part of the sentence that is said with a stronger voice, a changed pitch and for a longer time.
- I went to her house - Not that she came here.
I went to her house - Not to her office.
I went to her house - But I'm back now.
- I went to her house - But didn't go inside.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
-
- Posts: 3351
- Joined: May 11th, 2011, 10:51 am
- Location: Melbourne
- Contact:
Re: Sentence stress and how prepostions collocate
OK. Greek generally does this kind of emphasis by moving the emphasized constituent to the beginning.Stephen Hughes wrote:Sentence stress is the part of the sentence that is said with a stronger voice, a changed pitch and for a longer time.
If that were stressed on the preposition, it would mean that you DIDN'T go inside.
- I went to her house - Not that she came here.
I went to her house - Not to her office.
I went to her house - But I'm back now.
- I went to her house - But didn't go inside.
I'm not sure what the evidence for this would look like. The preposition would have to come first to receive emphasis, but it would have to be followed by at least the first full word of the prepositional phrase.Stephen Hughes wrote:While that is interesting in itself, I am suggesting here that it might be possible that some speakers pronounced the preposition with a slight pause after it, and others pronounced the preposition very close to the words that it governs. Have you found that to be the case?
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Melbourne, Australia
-
- Posts: 3323
- Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am
Re: Sentence stress and how prepostions collocate
In Koine it is followed by what it governs, isn't it? (cf. Homer).Stephen Carlson wrote:I'm not sure what the evidence for this would look like. The preposition would have to come first to receive emphasis, but it would have to be followed by at least the first full word of the prepositional phrase.
Till now, I've never been one to read Greek aloud when I read, but these past couple of months that I have been doing that, I've noticed that most phrases after the preposition are manageable, but some are too long to be gotten one's mouth around. It is much easier to say them with a slight pause after preposition.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
-
- Posts: 3351
- Joined: May 11th, 2011, 10:51 am
- Location: Melbourne
- Contact:
Re: Sentence stress and how prepostions collocate
Yes, but I'm thinking of preposition phrases with more than one full words, as when what is governs is noun phrase of adjective and noun. Only the first part need be fronted.Stephen Hughes wrote:In Koine it is followed by what it governs, isn't it? (cf. Homer).Stephen Carlson wrote:I'm not sure what the evidence for this would look like. The preposition would have to come first to receive emphasis, but it would have to be followed by at least the first full word of the prepositional phrase.
Maybe you have an example?Stephen Hughes wrote:Till now, I've never been one to read Greek aloud when I read, but these past couple of months that I have been doing that, I've noticed that most phrases after the preposition are manageable, but some are too long to be gotten one's mouth around. It is much easier to say them with a slight pause after preposition.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Melbourne, Australia