The Verbal Adjective

Stephen Hughes
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The Verbal Adjective

Post by Stephen Hughes »

How do verbal adjectives like λυτέος fit into these categories?
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
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Re: Category for participles, infinitives, finite verbs

Post by MAubrey »

Stephen Hughes wrote:How do verbal adjectives like λυτέος fit into these categories?
I can't speak for Micheal or Jonathan, but I would simply leave it as an adjective.
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Re: Category for participles, infinitives, finite verbs

Post by Stephen Carlson »

MAubrey wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:How do verbal adjectives like λυτέος fit into these categories?
I can't speak for Micheal or Jonathan, but I would simply leave it as an adjective.
It is indeed a borderline case, but the general practice is as Mike describes.
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Re: Category for participles, infinitives, finite verbs

Post by Jonathan Robie »

Stephen Carlson wrote:
MAubrey wrote:I can't speak for Micheal or Jonathan, but I would simply leave it as an adjective.
It is indeed a borderline case, but the general practice is as Mike describes.
I can't speak for Micheal, but I don't see anything better to do with it.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Re: Category for participles, infinitives, finite verbs

Post by Stephen Hughes »

Jonathan Robie wrote:
Stephen Carlson wrote:
MAubrey wrote:I can't speak for Micheal or Jonathan, but I would simply leave it as an adjective.
It is indeed a borderline case, but the general practice is as Mike describes.
I can't speak for Micheal, but I don't see anything better to do with it.
Perhaps in the Koine period, that categorisation as its own lexical entry is okay, it was fossilised and soon to be lost, but still let me ask (simply and not knowing the answer)...

Does it have aspect? Is it a mood?

For βλητέος, the use of the βλη- root suggests that it is not marked for aspect in either a two aspect or three aspect understanding of Greek grammar. The meaning suggests that the speaker is suggesting / insisting that something ought to be done - but that is just an English rendering. I'm not very conversant with these forms anymore than I can just translate them.
Luke 5:38 [i]Byz[/i]. wrote:Ἀλλὰ οἶνον νέον εἰς ἀσκοὺς καινοὺς βλητέον ("ought to be put"), καὶ ἀμφότεροι συντηροῦνται.
Mark 2:22 (only) [i]Byz[/i]. wrote:Καὶ οὐδεὶς βάλλει οἶνον νέον εἰς ἀσκοὺς παλαιούς· εἰ δὲ μή, ῥήσσει ὁ οἶνος ὁ νέος τοὺς ἀσκούς, καὶ ὁ οἶνος ἐκχεῖται καὶ οἱ ἀσκοὶ ἀπολοῦνται· ἀλλὰ οἶνον νέον εἰς ἀσκοὺς καινοὺς βλητέον ("ought to be put")
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: Category for participles, infinitives, finite verbs

Post by Stephen Hughes »

Stephen Hughes wrote:Does it have aspect? Is it a mood?
Luke 5:38 [i]Byz.[/i] wrote:Ἀλλὰ οἶνον νέον εἰς ἀσκοὺς καινοὺς βλητέον ("ought to be put"), καὶ ἀμφότεροι συντηροῦνται.
Mark 2:22 [i]Byz.[/i] ([b]only[/b]) wrote:Καὶ οὐδεὶς βάλλει οἶνον νέον εἰς ἀσκοὺς παλαιούς· εἰ δὲ μή, ῥήσσει ὁ οἶνος ὁ νέος τοὺς ἀσκούς, καὶ ὁ οἶνος ἐκχεῖται καὶ οἱ ἀσκοὶ ἀπολοῦνται· ἀλλὰ οἶνον νέον εἰς ἀσκοὺς καινοὺς βλητέον ("ought to be put")
Further to these verses quoted, and just briefly...

For twenty years, or more, I have uncritically been taking "verbal adjective" to mean that βλητέον was an adjective agreeking with οἶνον νέον. Apparently not though. From what I understand from Smyth sections 2149, 2150, esp. 2152, the οἶνον νέον is the subject of βαλεῖν in an impersonal verbal adjective construction.

That suggests to me at least that the name verbal adjective is a bit of misnomer. It actually functions, in the syntax, as a verbal form, at least in so far as it takes an object, has a subject (albiet impersonal), and similar to an infinitive can specify the subject in the accusative case, in some situations.

The questions still remain; Does it have aspect? Is it a mood?

Further to Smyth, here is some extended (but not entirely relevant) discussion, in this articleMyc. qe-te-jo and the Greek verbal adjective in -τέον.
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: Category for participles, infinitives, finite verbs

Post by Stephen Hughes »

I'm sorry for my low IQ and slow thinking, the correct thing to say was "pseudo-subject" for "impersonal".
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Re: Category for participles, infinitives, finite verbs

Post by cwconrad »

Stephen Hughes wrote:
MAubrey wrote:I can't speak for Micheal or Jonathan, but I would simply leave it as an adjective.
Perhaps in the Koine period, that categorisation as its own lexical entry is okay, it was fossilised and soon to be lost, but still let me ask (simply and not knowing the answer)...

Does it have aspect? Is it a mood?

For βλητέος, the use of the βλη- root suggests that it is not marked for aspect in either a two aspect or three aspect understanding of Greek grammar. The meaning suggests that the speaker is suggesting / insisting that something ought to be done - but that is just an English rendering. I'm not very conversant with these forms anymore than I can just translate them.
Luke 5:38 [i]Byz[/i]. wrote:Ἀλλὰ οἶνον νέον εἰς ἀσκοὺς καινοὺς βλητέον ("ought to be put"), καὶ ἀμφότεροι συντηροῦνται.
Mark 2:22 (only) [i]Byz[/i]. wrote:Καὶ οὐδεὶς βάλλει οἶνον νέον εἰς ἀσκοὺς παλαιούς· εἰ δὲ μή, ῥήσσει ὁ οἶνος ὁ νέος τοὺς ἀσκούς, καὶ ὁ οἶνος ἐκχεῖται καὶ οἱ ἀσκοὶ ἀπολοῦνται· ἀλλὰ οἶνον νέον εἰς ἀσκοὺς καινοὺς βλητέον ("ought to be put")
I've never thought to consider whether the verbal adjectives of the type βλη-τός/ή/όν or of the type βλη-τέος/α/ον (cf. Smyth §§471-2:
471. Verbal Adjectives.—Most of the verbals in -τός and -τέος are formed by adding these suffixes to the verbal stein of the aorist passive (first or second). Thus, φιλητός, -τέος (ἐ-φιλή-θην); πειστός, -τέος (ἐ-πείσ-θην); τελεστός, -τέος (ἐ-τελέσ-θην); σταλτός, -τέος (ἐ-στάλ-ην); βλητός, -τέος (ἐ-βλή-θην). On the accent of compound verbals, see 425 c.

a. Some are derived from other stem forms (pres. and fut.), as φερ-τός, ἰ-τέον, δυνα-τός; μενετός (cp. μενέ-ω = μενῶ fut.).

472. Verbals in -τός, -τή, -τόν either (1) have the meaning of a perfect passive participle, as κρυπτός hidden, παιδευτός educated, or (2) express possibility, as νοητός thinkable, ὁρᾱτός visible. Many have either signification, but some are passive only, as ποιητός done. See 425 c. N.
a. Usually passive in meaning are verbals from deponent verbs, as μῑμητός imitated.
b. Usually active in meaning are compounds derived from transitive active verbs; but some intransitive verbs make active verbals, as ῥυτός flowing.
c. Many are active or passive, others only active: μεμπτός blamed, blamable, blaming, πιστός trusting in (rare), trusted, ἄπρᾱκτος doing nothing, not done, φθεγκτός sounding.

473. Verbals in -τέος, -τέᾱ, -τέον express necessity (cp. the Lat. gerundive in -ndus), as δοτέος that must be given, παιδευτέος educandus.


Smyth, H. W. (1920). A Greek Grammar for Colleges (pp. 156–157). New York; Cincinnati; Chicago; Boston; Atlanta: American Book Company.
are still live modes of expression in the Koine -- when you see and immediately grasp the sense of a construction, you don't think to analyze it -- but the expression οἶνον νέον εἰς ἀσκοὺς καινοὺς βλητέον shows that it does indeed survive in the Koine.

So where do these items fit into our "complete" taxonomy of the Koine Greek verb? Long ago it occurred to me that the verbal adjective in -τός -τέος is very much like the Latin gerundive in -ndus/a/um (e.g. amandus/a/um, "deserving to be loved, needing to be loved"). This is frequently used as a predicate with the auxiliary esse to express obligatory action, as in the classic line of the Roman senator Cato who would end his speeches in the Senate with the add-on comment that, in his opinion, Carthago delenda est -- "Carthage must be obliterated!."

So, I wondered why we shouldn't refer to the Greek verbal adjectives in -τός and -τέος as "gerundives." After all, they are like participles in that they carry both adjectival and verbal force.

To complicate matters further, thinking about the Latin gerundive or "verbal adjective" leads to another question: What about the verbal noun, the Latin gerund, which supplies the oblique cases in the neuter singular for the infinitive as a verbal noun. We certainly do have in common use in Koine Greek the verbal noun in the inflected neuter singular "articular infinitive" that is so common in the genitive especially, for example, in purpose usage (Mt 13:3 ἐξῆλθεν ὁ σπείρων τοῦ σπείρειν)· cf. BDF §§398-404.

The question remains, it seems to me, whether morphological features of the language such as these are simply to be lumped together with the moods or whether verbal adjectives and verbal nouns deserve a category of their own.
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
Stephen Hughes
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Re: Category for participles, infinitives, finite verbs

Post by Stephen Hughes »

cwconrad wrote:I've never thought to consider whether the verbal adjectives of the type βλη-τός/ή/όν or of the type βλη-τέος/α/ον (cf. Smyth §§471-2) are still live modes of expression in the Koine -- when you see and immediately grasp the sense of a construction, you don't think to analyze it -- but the expression οἶνον νέον εἰς ἀσκοὺς καινοὺς βλητέον shows that it does indeed survive in the Koine.
Perhaps we should bring this verse into the discussion then...
2 Maccabees 2:29 wrote:καθάπερ γὰρ τῆς καινῆς οἰκίας ἀρχιτέκτονι τῆς ὅλης καταβολῆς φροντιστέον, τῷ δὲ ἐγκαίειν καὶ ζωγραφεῖν ἐπιχειροῦντι τὰ ἐπιτήδεια (cf. James 2:16) πρὸς διακόσμησιν ἐξεταστέον οὕτως δοκῶ καὶ ἐπὶ ἡμῶν
For as the master builder of a new house must care for the whole building; but he that undertaketh to set it out, and paint it, must seek out fit things for the adorning thereof: even so I think it is with us. (English KJV)
φροντίζειν (+gen.) to be careful; ἐπιχειρεῖν (+inf.) to undertake; ἐγκαίειν to paint with hot wax; ζωγραφεῖν to paint (so far as I know, this means like "paint" with a palete, not "paint" with a paint-tin. I assume they had first whitewashed (κονιᾶν) the wall (cf. Acts 23:3), if it is the walls that were being painted.); ἐξετάζειν (+acc.) to seek out

As mentioned in Smyth, the agent is in the dative here ἀρχιτέκτονι ... , τῷ δὲ ἐγκαίειν καὶ ζωγραφεῖν ἐπιχειροῦντι ...

To ease discussion along, here are a few notes on the verse, apart from the point at hand:
  • I've quoted the original KJV here, but I personally understand the two "verbal adjectives" to be referring to two different people. The KJV translation has been translated as if it refers to one and the same person.
  • In the New Testament, in another construction, the verb φροντίζειν is used with the infinitive:
    Titus 3:8 wrote:Πιστὸς ὁ λόγος, καὶ περὶ τούτων βούλομαί σε διαβεβαιοῦσθαι, ἵνα φροντίζωσιν καλῶν ἔργων (genitive) προΐστασθαι οἱ πεπιστευκότες θεῷ. Ταῦτά ἐστιν τὰ καλὰ καὶ ὠφέλιμα τοῖς ἀνθρώποις·
    But I don't think that a "verbal adjective" could be combined with an infinitive. [In fact, the construction in Titus 3:8 is a little ambiguous because προΐστασθαι also takes a genitive.]
  • It seems that ἐξετάζειν, which is usuallyt used in the sense of "to look into / to inquire / to find out (about)", when used with the accusative phrase τὰ ἐπιτήδεια πρὸς διακόσμησιν seems to have been translated a little further than the meaning of the verb
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Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: Category for participles, infinitives, finite verbs

Post by Stephen Hughes »

So where do these items fit into our "complete" taxonomy of the Koine Greek verb? Long ago it occurred to me that the verbal adjective in -τός -τέος is very much like the Latin gerundive in -ndus/a/um (e.g. amandus/a/um, "deserving to be loved, needing to be loved"). This is frequently used as a predicate with the auxiliary esse to express obligatory action, as in the classic line of the Roman senator Cato who would end his speeches in the Senate with the add-on comment that, in his opinion, Carthago delenda est -- "Carthage must be obliterated!."

So, I wondered why we shouldn't refer to the Greek verbal adjectives in -τός and -τέος as "gerundives." After all, they are like participles in that they carry both adjectival and verbal force.

To complicate matters further, thinking about the Latin gerundive or "verbal adjective" leads to another question: What about the verbal noun, the Latin gerund, which supplies the oblique cases in the neuter singular for the infinitive as a verbal noun. We certainly do have in common use in Koine Greek the verbal noun in the inflected neuter singular "articular infinitive" that is so common in the genitive especially, for example, in purpose usage (Mt 13:3 ἐξῆλθεν ὁ σπείρων τοῦ σπείρειν)· cf. BDF §§398-404.

The question remains, it seems to me, whether morphological features of the language such as these are simply to be lumped together with the moods or whether verbal adjectives and verbal nouns deserve a category of their own.
Are these Greek verbal adjectives in -τός and -τέος the same syntactically?

It seems that those in -τός are more like a participle but only that it looses its verbal functioning (interaction with other elements in the sentence as a verb does - taking an object, agent in the dative) and becomes simply adjectival. Those in -τέος on the other hand have a special force and syntactic structure of their own - as described in Smyth - in constructions including and other than those (that I can find, at least), in the Seventy or the New Testament.

While aware of the fact that the cathedra I sit on has a cistern behind it, I'd say that the -τός seems to be derived from the verb and functioning as a regular adjective syntactically. The -τέος, meanwhile, functions as a verbal form within its own syntactic patterns.
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(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
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