List of Articular Infinitives

Stephen Carlson
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Re: List of Articular Infinitives

Post by Stephen Carlson » January 5th, 2015, 3:58 am

George F Somsel wrote:Stephen C Carlson wrote:
I'm not that familiar with Cascadia. Is it similar to what their are doing or something else entirely?
https://www.logos.com/product/27284/cas ... bl-edition
Thanks
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Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia

Jonathan Robie
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Re: List of Articular Infinitives

Post by Jonathan Robie » January 5th, 2015, 9:45 am

MAubrey wrote:This is what I have from Cascadia so far. I'm sure there are more. These are all the articular infinitives listed as NP's with a determiner that's a sister of a clause whose head is an infinitive verb. I'm sure there's another syntactic pattern Cascadia uses, but I haven't found it yet.

http://1drv.ms/1Ht5Nml

It's an xml spreadsheet, you should be able to open it in any spreadsheet viewer (excel, open office, etc.)
FWIW, our syntax trees are cousins of the Cascadia syntax trees, and I've spent a little time trying to figure out how to identify articular infinitives and run into similar issues - there's more than one pattern. This search feels like it shouldn't be quite this difficult.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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MAubrey
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Re: List of Articular Infinitives

Post by MAubrey » January 5th, 2015, 2:39 pm

There shouldn't be more than another 50 or so hits. Burk's paper on the article from ETS two years ago says a total of 324 in the NT--he doesn't list them and I don't know how he came up with that number.
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: List of Articular Infinitives

Post by Stephen Hughes » January 6th, 2015, 5:47 am

Stephen Carlson wrote:I need a list of articular infinitives in a corpus that includes at the least the NT. Has such a list been published or can it be easily queried
Shirley Rollinson wrote:do a search for ... all the infintives in the GNT - 2,285 of them. Then ... take your time and follow the link for each infinitive, and see the verses in which it appears - that way you can sort out the articular infintives from the others, and also have them in context.
I realise that this discussion is about the how not the why of the search for the complete list, but I think Shirley's advice is sound.

Thinking back now to what I did with the list that Hefin made for me. There are situations in which the grammar of a construction (like following a preposition) which dictates that an article is needed to make the syntax clear. There are other instances when there is little or no significance. Searching for articular infinitives per se is going to return a result containing data of different quality, so whatever manipulation you do on that data will be of questionable authenticity. Results from a flawed data set might lead you to conclusions that will eventually end you up with egg on your face.
Barry Hofstetter wrote:One could also do it the old-fashioned way – – by reading through the Greek New Testament, and noting every instance of the articular infinitive. I admit it might take a little longer, but think of the benefits resulting... ... The fact that someone at your level of competence trusts technology more than his own eyes and brain says something about our culture (and perhaps your age).
Although this was meant as a joke (I think), the advice that it could be taken in this case seems quite sound.

Of course, I had no real purpose to my search, and I can't guess what your purpose is, but let me suggest a more involved search anyway. A complete list of infinitives, minus the subset of syntactically required ones, and a comparison of articular to non-articular in constructions when either could be used is meaningful. That is like distilling a certain compound from a mixture before going on with a test process. An infinitive as a class of words is a mixed kettle of fish. You will need to manually sort a bit before the categorisation articular / anarthrous really makes sense. Your "own eyes and brain" will help you here in conjunction with the technology.
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(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

David Lim
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Re: List of Articular Infinitives

Post by David Lim » January 7th, 2015, 6:20 am

If a manual search really needs to be done, or for those who don't have other software, one reasonable online option is http://unbound.biola.edu/index.cfm?meth ... ncedSearch. It allows you to search for verses in the NT or LXX satisfying some criteria and displaying multiple versions for those verses.

To find infinitives in the NT
Select version 1 to be a parsed NT text.
Select version 2 to be a non-parsed NT text.
Type "V-__N OR V-___N" into the search box.
Press "Search".

To find infinitives in the LXX
Select version 1 to be a parsed LXX text.
Select version 2 to be a non-parsed LXX text.
Type "V_--__N" into the search box.
Press "Search".

Note that "_" matches any single character. The morphological coding scheme for the NT is at https://sites.google.com/a/wmail.fi/gre ... me/greeknt (parsings.txt) and that for the LXX is at http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/gopher/text/r ... l/lxxmorph (*Morph-Coding).
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: List of Articular Infinitives

Post by Jonathan Robie » January 7th, 2015, 5:01 pm

Stephen Carlson wrote: hoping that either Jonathan or Micheal would jump in, since the question seems to fit their project to query syntax trees. I'm actually a little surprised not to hear from them, but people get busier over the holidays I suppose.
That's a combination of:

(1) Not looking at this until a few days ago
(2) Realizing that this query hits a known bug in identifying the head of phrases, and
(3) Seeing that I need to identify more than one pattern to make this accurate

This kind of question is really helpful, and will help make our representation more mature. I also have to figure out some way to set this up so other people can query it more conveniently ...
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

John Kendall
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Re: List of Articular Infinitives

Post by John Kendall » January 8th, 2015, 6:50 am

Burk lists 323 articular infinitives in his 2004 paper here: http://www.tyndalehouse.com/tynbul/libr ... hil2_6.pdf. See footnotes 28 and 36 (201 with prepositions and 122 without). These lists differ slightly from those in his 2006 monograph (200 with prepositions and 124 without). I don't have time at the moment to check for the differences.
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Stephen Carlson
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Re: List of Articular Infinitives

Post by Stephen Carlson » January 12th, 2015, 12:56 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:
Stephen Carlson wrote: hoping that either Jonathan or Micheal would jump in, since the question seems to fit their project to query syntax trees. I'm actually a little surprised not to hear from them, but people get busier over the holidays I suppose.
That's a combination of:

(1) Not looking at this until a few days ago
(2) Realizing that this query hits a known bug in identifying the head of phrases, and
(3) Seeing that I need to identify more than one pattern to make this accurate

This kind of question is really helpful, and will help make our representation more mature. I also have to figure out some way to set this up so other people can query it more conveniently ...
Thanks for looking into it, and sorry about the bug. I thought this is the kind of query that your syntax tree project can handle but that traditional search software should not be able to easily (i.e., without an excessively over-inclusive search with a manual filter).
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Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia

Stephen Carlson
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Re: List of Articular Infinitives

Post by Stephen Carlson » January 12th, 2015, 12:57 am

John Kendall wrote:Burk lists 323 articular infinitives in his 2004 paper here: http://www.tyndalehouse.com/tynbul/libr ... hil2_6.pdf. See footnotes 28 and 36 (201 with prepositions and 122 without). These lists differ slightly from those in his 2006 monograph (200 with prepositions and 124 without). I don't have time at the moment to check for the differences.
Thanks for the cite and link. Burk's book is still making its way to me, but the link to the article is pretty nifty to have.
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Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
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John Kendall
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Re: List of Articular Infinitives

Post by John Kendall » January 12th, 2015, 7:25 am

I've now compared Burk's lists in both the paper and the monograph. The number of examples cited in the paper is 322, not the 323 that it states.

The monograph (p. 24, notes 108, 109) lists 200 examples with prepositions (removing 1 Thess 3:3 from the earlier list) and 124 without prepositions (adding 1 Thess 3:3 and Acts 4:18 [2x] to the earlier list). However, in note 116 on p. 71, Burk concludes that Acts 4:18 does not involve an articular infinitive construction and that 1 Thess 3:3 should be probably be considered to be a prepositional construction. This gets us back to the same list as in the paper!

Missing from the initial lists in both the paper and the monograph is the prepositional construction in Heb 2:15. This is included in what appear to be Burk's definitive lists in the monograph appendices. With this, and excluding Acts 4:18, his tally reaches 323.
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