Adding accents

jtauber
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Re: Adding accents

Post by jtauber » November 26th, 2016, 12:26 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:
Cool! To what extent can I use this to, say, add accents to Greek from Alan Bunning's text? How accurate is it?
To be honest, I've never tried it on a completely unaccented text. I use it for generating verbal paradigms and it successfully does that (so to that extent is 100% accurate). It requires a small amount of lexical knowledge even for verbs. Nouns would obviously need rich lexical knowledge.

It also has general tools for testing the law of limitations, stripping accents, etc, all of which could be used in a tool for helping accent new text.

Because, in Alan's case, we're talking about variants rather than a completely new text, one might get a long way just by building an unaccented->accented mapping from existing accented text. I'm not sure accenting actual transcriptions is useful (or even wise, although I'm not a textual critic) but this approach could be used to jumpstart accentuation of a critical text. I found a few errors in SBLGNT when it first came out with some basic heuristic so as a validation mechanism it might be useful.

I mostly mentioned it, not because I think it would specifically solve Alan's use case, but because a lot of people who might find it useful for other things don't seem to realise the library exists.
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: Adding accents

Post by Jonathan Robie » November 27th, 2016, 9:06 am

Does it modify accents for words in context, or does it just accent a single word?
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jtauber
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Re: Adding accents

Post by jtauber » November 27th, 2016, 12:35 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:Does it modify accents for words in context, or does it just accent a single word?
No, but I plan to support that. I started on it a year ago[1] but got sidetracked by the capitalization stuff[2] which I'm finally getting back to (hopefully with some b-greek help!)

[1] http://jktauber.com/2015/11/27/annotati ... nt-part-1/
[2] http://jktauber.com/2016/01/17/direct-s ... ding-head/
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Re: Adding accents

Post by Jonathan Robie » November 27th, 2016, 4:36 pm

jtauber wrote:
Jonathan Robie wrote:Does it modify accents for words in context, or does it just accent a single word?
No, but I plan to support that. I started on it a year ago[1] but got sidetracked by the capitalization stuff[2] which I'm finally getting back to (hopefully with some b-greek help!)

[1] http://jktauber.com/2015/11/27/annotati ... nt-part-1/
[2] http://jktauber.com/2016/01/17/direct-s ... ding-head/
OK, that's my hint, I think ;->

Let's use hypothes.is for this, annotating the list that James gave us. I set up a b-greek group on hypothes,is, and James added two "group documents". Use the b-greek link (to the left) to join the group, then go to those documents and comment on the instances. Feel free to ask for help.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Stephen Carlson
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Re: Adding accents

Post by Stephen Carlson » November 27th, 2016, 8:47 pm

jtauber wrote:
Jonathan Robie wrote:A really good starting point might be Greek Accents: A Student's Manual, by D.A. Carson.
Or https://github.com/jtauber/greek-accentuation
It's a nice video, but it needs to say something about the accentuation of πίστεως, which does not fit the rules.
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Re: Adding accents

Post by jtauber » November 28th, 2016, 8:20 am

Stephen Carlson wrote:
It's a nice video, but it needs to say something about the accentuation of πίστεως, which does not fit the rules.
Note that link (or this thread) has nothing to do with my video, but I will add that the video is JUST explaining the law of limitation, which, by itself, explains neither the interaction with quantitative metathesis as in πίστεως nor with contraction.
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Re: Adding accents

Post by Stephen Carlson » November 28th, 2016, 6:35 pm

jtauber wrote:
Stephen Carlson wrote:
It's a nice video, but it needs to say something about the accentuation of πίστεως, which does not fit the rules.
Note that link (or this thread) has nothing to do with my video, but I will add that the video is JUST explaining the law of limitation, which, by itself, explains neither the interaction with quantitative metathesis as in πίστεως nor with contraction.
Sorry, commented on the wrong thread.
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Re: Adding accents

Post by Stephen Carlson » November 29th, 2016, 2:51 am

Stephen Carlson wrote:
jtauber wrote:
Stephen Carlson wrote:It's a nice video, but it needs to say something about the accentuation of πίστεως, which does not fit the rules.
Note that link (or this thread) has nothing to do with my video, but I will add that the video is JUST explaining the law of limitation, which, by itself, explains neither the interaction with quantitative metathesis as in πίστεως nor with contraction.
Sorry, commented on the wrong thread.
I should note that contraction does fit your video on the law of limitation, though it means that verbs are no longer recessive (which is not brought up in your video).

On the other hand, the evidence of quantitative metathesis suggests to me that the old classical accentuation system has changed in Koine times (if not a bit earlier) so that the law of limitation is no longer strictly operative. By the end of Koine times (c. 200+ CE), with the decline of vowel length distinctions, I would also expect the morae to no longer be relevant to the later accentuation system.
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Re: Adding accents

Post by jtauber » November 29th, 2016, 4:20 am

Stephen Carlson wrote: I should note that contraction does fit your video on the law of limitation, though it means that verbs are no longer recessive (which is not brought up in your video).
Yes, good point. Post-contraction, the law of limitation is still followed.
Stephen Carlson wrote: On the other hand, the evidence of quantitative metathesis suggests to me that the old classical accentuation system has changed in Koine times (if not a bit earlier) so that the law of limitation is no longer strictly operative. By the end of Koine times (c. 200+ CE), with the decline of vowel length distinctions, I would also expect the morae to no longer be relevant to the later accentuation system.
I'm sure this is true. My goal was not to provide any new insight into the accentuation system or the changes it underwent, merely to visually show* the moraic explanation of the law of limitation and how it reduces the "rules" from 5 to 2.

There is so much more that would need to be said about accentuation in general. What's covered in that video is a mere sliver of what's in Carson's or Probert's handbooks much less Probert's thesis/monograph, etc.

* the only innovation in that video is the visuals which I came up with in 2014; the moraic explanation itself, is of course, not original
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Re: Adding accents

Post by Stephen Carlson » November 30th, 2016, 2:02 am

jtauber wrote:* the only innovation in that video is the visuals which I came up with in 2014; the moraic explanation itself, is of course, not original
Yes, the visuals are very nice.
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