Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?

Jonathan Robie
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Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?

Post by Jonathan Robie » February 11th, 2017, 6:43 pm

Stirling Bartholomew wrote:
RandallButh wrote:Even so-called adverbial participles are adjectives, they modify the explicit or implicit subject. If the subject is female, the participle is female, if plural the participle is plural, just like we would expect of an adjective.
This seems like an invitation for an argument. To invoke the notion of an implicit subject sounds a little bit like evading the counter examples by defining them out of existence.
No need for an argument, but I'd be interested in following a discussion on this topic. What kind of counter examples are you thinking of?
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Robert Emil Berge
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Re: Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?

Post by Robert Emil Berge » February 11th, 2017, 9:29 pm

I think I know what is meant by adverbial participles, but I can't think of any examples where the subject isn't explicit, unless it is the implicit subject of the main verb which is meant. Could you give an example where it could be the case that the participle has an implicit subject?
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?

Post by Jonathan Robie » February 11th, 2017, 9:35 pm

Robert Emil Berge wrote:I think I know what is meant by adverbial participles, but I can't think of any examples where the subject isn't explicit, unless it is the implicit subject of the main verb which is meant. Could you give an example where it could be the case that the participle has an implicit subject?
Randall?
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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MAubrey
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Re: Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?

Post by MAubrey » February 11th, 2017, 10:14 pm

Modifying an explicit or implicit subject and being co-referential with an explicit or implicit subject are two different things. I've always viewed adverbial participles as an example of the latter. I'd also be curious as to how one could demonstrate actual adjectival modification of such participles.
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?

Post by Stephen Hughes » February 12th, 2017, 12:56 am

Here are four examples having what I think is a scale moving from exclusive (the whole verbal force is expressed by the participle) to explicit (the subject of the verb is actually stated) to somewhat implicit (the subject infered from the immediate context and somewhat shown - gender and number - by the participle) to undefined (no individual subject of the verb is made known to the reader) subject.

In this contextualising statement, the verbal statements - like genitives absolute - are expressed in participles:
Ἐγένετο Ἰωάννης βαπτίζων ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ, καὶ κηρύσσων βάπτισμα μετανοίας εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν.
The subject is mentioned and then the verbal description of him is made using participles.

Within the flow of the narrative, in this verbal phrase the subject is explicitly stated:
Luke 14:21 wrote:Τότε ὀργισθεὶς ὁ οἰκοδεσπότης εἶπεν τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ,
In this case, I think the ὁ οἰκοδεσπότης is mentioned explicitly to make it clear the narrator has changed from talking about the servant now.

Within the flow of the narrative, in the second verbal phrase of the following the subject is implicit:
Luke 8:47 wrote:Ἰδοῦσα δὲ ἡ γυνὴ ὅτι οὐκ ἔλαθεν, τρέμουσα ἦλθεν, καὶ προσπεσοῦσα αὐτῷ,
Here there is no change of subject from one verb to the next, so there is no need to be any more explicit than indicating gender.

In this statement of truth, in all three verbal phrases here a class of persons (rather than an individual) are indicated by the participle:
Matthew 7:8 wrote:Πᾶς γὰρ ὁ αἰτῶν λαμβάνει, καὶ ὁ ζητῶν εὑρίσκει, καὶ τῷ κρούοντι ἀνοιγήσεται.
Here no particular person (and possibly every person) is meant by the participle.
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RandallButh
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Re: Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?

Post by RandallButh » February 12th, 2017, 8:17 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:
Robert Emil Berge wrote:I think I know what is meant by adverbial participles, but I can't think of any examples where the subject isn't explicit, unless it is the implicit subject of the main verb which is meant. Could you give an example where it could be the case that the participle has an implicit subject?
Randall?
The participle is an adjective. I don't understand the thread title.

'Explicit subject' means actually stated. Example: γυνὴ ἔρχεται.
'Implicit subject' means not stated. Example: καὶ λέγει.

A participle may be co-referential and therefore refer to the implicit subject of a verb: ἐρχομένη λέγει.
There are different degrees of definiteness and inclusion with a noun possible:
ἐρχομένη ἡ γυνὴ λέγει
ἡ ἐρχομένη γυνὴ λέγει
ἐρχομένη γυνὴ λέγει
ἐρχομένη λέγει
ἔρχεται καὶ λέγει.
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Stirling Bartholomew
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Re: Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?

Post by Stirling Bartholomew » February 12th, 2017, 12:19 pm

Here is a post by Bill Mounce

Adverbial Participles and Finite Verbs
https://billmounce.com/blog/adverbial-p ... nite-verbs

I don't see any mention of adjectives. There is ambiguity in the meta language. What does Mounce mean by Adverbial Participle? Does he mean that the participle functions adverbially? When Buth claims that the participle is an adjective, is he talking about function or something else? This sort of problem plagues discussions which don't adhere to some sort of "framework" and examples of this sort of confusion could multiplied beyond counting.
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RandallButh
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Re: Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?

Post by RandallButh » February 12th, 2017, 12:51 pm

So what is an adjective?

It is a word category that uses the nominal-adjectival endings.
And sure enough, that is what the participles have. -ος -η -ον, -ου -ης -ου, -ωι -ηι -ωι, κτλ.
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Robert Crowe
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Re: Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?

Post by Robert Crowe » February 12th, 2017, 1:27 pm

Stirling Bartholomew wrote:Here is a post by Bill Mounce

Adverbial Participles and Finite Verbs
https://billmounce.com/blog/adverbial-p ... nite-verbs

I don't see any mention of adjectives. There is ambiguity in the meta language. What does Mounce mean by Adverbial Participle? Does he mean that the participle functions adverbially? When Buth claims that the participle is an adjective, is he talking about function or something else? This sort of problem plagues discussions which don't adhere to some sort of "framework" and examples of this sort of confusion could multiplied beyond counting.
While participles are always basically adjectival, this surely doesn't preclude them having an adverbial function. Even in such a function, they describe an entity in terms of action or state.
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?

Post by Stephen Hughes » February 12th, 2017, 3:31 pm

There seem to be 15 NT examples of participles used as adverbs - ὄντως (x11) ὁμολογουμένως (x1), ὑπερβαλλόντως (x1), φειδομένως (x2):
1 Timothy3:16 wrote:Καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον·
2 Corinthians 9:6 wrote:Τοῦτο δέ, ὁ σπείρων φειδομένως, φειδομένως καὶ θερίσει· καὶ ὁ σπείρων ἐπ’ εὐλογίαις, ἐπ’ εὐλογίαις καὶ θερίσει.
2 Corinthians 11:23 wrote:ἐν πληγαῖς ὑπερβαλλόντως
They could be less said to be an adverb with a subject than an adverbial prepositional phrase which included some information about a person - perhaps a subjective genitive -could.
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