No need for an argument, but I'd be interested in following a discussion on this topic. What kind of counter examples are you thinking of?Stirling Bartholomew wrote:This seems like an invitation for an argument. To invoke the notion of an implicit subject sounds a little bit like evading the counter examples by defining them out of existence.RandallButh wrote:Even so-called adverbial participles are adjectives, they modify the explicit or implicit subject. If the subject is female, the participle is female, if plural the participle is plural, just like we would expect of an adjective.
Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?
-
- Posts: 4162
- Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
- Location: Durham, NC
- Contact:
Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
-
- Posts: 63
- Joined: August 24th, 2016, 1:34 pm
Re: Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?
I think I know what is meant by adverbial participles, but I can't think of any examples where the subject isn't explicit, unless it is the implicit subject of the main verb which is meant. Could you give an example where it could be the case that the participle has an implicit subject?
-
- Posts: 4162
- Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
- Location: Durham, NC
- Contact:
Re: Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?
Randall?Robert Emil Berge wrote:I think I know what is meant by adverbial participles, but I can't think of any examples where the subject isn't explicit, unless it is the implicit subject of the main verb which is meant. Could you give an example where it could be the case that the participle has an implicit subject?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
Re: Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?
Modifying an explicit or implicit subject and being co-referential with an explicit or implicit subject are two different things. I've always viewed adverbial participles as an example of the latter. I'd also be curious as to how one could demonstrate actual adjectival modification of such participles.
Mike Aubrey, Linguist
SIL International
Koine-Greek.com
SIL International
Koine-Greek.com
-
- Posts: 3323
- Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am
Re: Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?
Here are four examples having what I think is a scale moving from exclusive (the whole verbal force is expressed by the participle) to explicit (the subject of the verb is actually stated) to somewhat implicit (the subject infered from the immediate context and somewhat shown - gender and number - by the participle) to undefined (no individual subject of the verb is made known to the reader) subject.
In this contextualising statement, the verbal statements - like genitives absolute - are expressed in participles:
Within the flow of the narrative, in this verbal phrase the subject is explicitly stated:
Within the flow of the narrative, in the second verbal phrase of the following the subject is implicit:
In this statement of truth, in all three verbal phrases here a class of persons (rather than an individual) are indicated by the participle:
In this contextualising statement, the verbal statements - like genitives absolute - are expressed in participles:
The subject is mentioned and then the verbal description of him is made using participles.Ἐγένετο Ἰωάννης βαπτίζων ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ, καὶ κηρύσσων βάπτισμα μετανοίας εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν.
Within the flow of the narrative, in this verbal phrase the subject is explicitly stated:
In this case, I think the ὁ οἰκοδεσπότης is mentioned explicitly to make it clear the narrator has changed from talking about the servant now.Luke 14:21 wrote:Τότε ὀργισθεὶς ὁ οἰκοδεσπότης εἶπεν τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ,
Within the flow of the narrative, in the second verbal phrase of the following the subject is implicit:
Here there is no change of subject from one verb to the next, so there is no need to be any more explicit than indicating gender.Luke 8:47 wrote:Ἰδοῦσα δὲ ἡ γυνὴ ὅτι οὐκ ἔλαθεν, τρέμουσα ἦλθεν, καὶ προσπεσοῦσα αὐτῷ,
In this statement of truth, in all three verbal phrases here a class of persons (rather than an individual) are indicated by the participle:
Here no particular person (and possibly every person) is meant by the participle.Matthew 7:8 wrote:Πᾶς γὰρ ὁ αἰτῶν λαμβάνει, καὶ ὁ ζητῶν εὑρίσκει, καὶ τῷ κρούοντι ἀνοιγήσεται.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
-
- Posts: 1105
- Joined: May 13th, 2011, 4:01 am
Re: Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?
The participle is an adjective. I don't understand the thread title.Jonathan Robie wrote:Randall?Robert Emil Berge wrote:I think I know what is meant by adverbial participles, but I can't think of any examples where the subject isn't explicit, unless it is the implicit subject of the main verb which is meant. Could you give an example where it could be the case that the participle has an implicit subject?
'Explicit subject' means actually stated. Example: γυνὴ ἔρχεται.
'Implicit subject' means not stated. Example: καὶ λέγει.
A participle may be co-referential and therefore refer to the implicit subject of a verb: ἐρχομένη λέγει.
There are different degrees of definiteness and inclusion with a noun possible:
ἐρχομένη ἡ γυνὴ λέγει
ἡ ἐρχομένη γυνὴ λέγει
ἐρχομένη γυνὴ λέγει
ἐρχομένη λέγει
ἔρχεται καὶ λέγει.
-
- Posts: 1141
- Joined: August 9th, 2012, 4:19 pm
Re: Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?
Here is a post by Bill Mounce
Adverbial Participles and Finite Verbs
https://billmounce.com/blog/adverbial-p ... nite-verbs
I don't see any mention of adjectives. There is ambiguity in the meta language. What does Mounce mean by Adverbial Participle? Does he mean that the participle functions adverbially? When Buth claims that the participle is an adjective, is he talking about function or something else? This sort of problem plagues discussions which don't adhere to some sort of "framework" and examples of this sort of confusion could multiplied beyond counting.
Adverbial Participles and Finite Verbs
https://billmounce.com/blog/adverbial-p ... nite-verbs
I don't see any mention of adjectives. There is ambiguity in the meta language. What does Mounce mean by Adverbial Participle? Does he mean that the participle functions adverbially? When Buth claims that the participle is an adjective, is he talking about function or something else? This sort of problem plagues discussions which don't adhere to some sort of "framework" and examples of this sort of confusion could multiplied beyond counting.
C. Stirling Bartholomew
-
- Posts: 1105
- Joined: May 13th, 2011, 4:01 am
Re: Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?
So what is an adjective?
It is a word category that uses the nominal-adjectival endings.
And sure enough, that is what the participles have. -ος -η -ον, -ου -ης -ου, -ωι -ηι -ωι, κτλ.
It is a word category that uses the nominal-adjectival endings.
And sure enough, that is what the participles have. -ος -η -ον, -ου -ης -ου, -ωι -ηι -ωι, κτλ.
-
- Posts: 108
- Joined: January 8th, 2016, 11:06 am
- Location: Northern Ireland
Re: Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?
While participles are always basically adjectival, this surely doesn't preclude them having an adverbial function. Even in such a function, they describe an entity in terms of action or state.Stirling Bartholomew wrote:Here is a post by Bill Mounce
Adverbial Participles and Finite Verbs
https://billmounce.com/blog/adverbial-p ... nite-verbs
I don't see any mention of adjectives. There is ambiguity in the meta language. What does Mounce mean by Adverbial Participle? Does he mean that the participle functions adverbially? When Buth claims that the participle is an adjective, is he talking about function or something else? This sort of problem plagues discussions which don't adhere to some sort of "framework" and examples of this sort of confusion could multiplied beyond counting.
Tús maith leath na hoibre.
-
- Posts: 3323
- Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am
Re: Do adverbial participles have an implicit subject?
There seem to be 15 NT examples of participles used as adverbs - ὄντως (x11) ὁμολογουμένως (x1), ὑπερβαλλόντως (x1), φειδομένως (x2):
1 Timothy3:16 wrote:Καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον·
2 Corinthians 9:6 wrote:Τοῦτο δέ, ὁ σπείρων φειδομένως, φειδομένως καὶ θερίσει· καὶ ὁ σπείρων ἐπ’ εὐλογίαις, ἐπ’ εὐλογίαις καὶ θερίσει.
They could be less said to be an adverb with a subject than an adverbial prepositional phrase which included some information about a person - perhaps a subjective genitive -could.2 Corinthians 11:23 wrote:ἐν πληγαῖς ὑπερβαλλόντως
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)