Should πόρρωθεν also be an ADV-T?
Posted: May 5th, 2013, 7:35 am
πόρρωθεν (occurring twice), is listed in BDAG only as an ADV-PL. and it is inferred that that is the case in the LXX too. In the classical (Attic) literature it also used in the sense of an ADV-T. I think that it is more easily taken as an ADV-T in Heb.11:13. It is possible that, at Jer.38:3 it IS an ADV-T, but within the methodological choice of BDAG, the LXX is not counted as a Christian book (written by v. used by as a primary reference work -- of course the list of authours cited as having used the word too doesn't imply that they only use the word in the same sense as in the NT).
Looking at the meaning of πόρρω in Greek, it would be something like ὃ διαφέρει πολύ ἢ ἔχει μεγάλην ἀπόστασιν (and I guess that according to the traditional glosses that LSJ has the ἀ. could be τοπ. and χρον.). And in BDAG, as for πόρρω, πόρρωθεν seems to limited to an ADV-PL and T sense. If we wanted to understand the -θεν in Greek, we would probably use add an ἀπὸ τινός to the above meaning. It seems to me that a temporal separation between the prophets and the promise is intended by the πόρρωθεν in Heb.11:13. Considering that it has a possible LXX precedent and classical examples, I scratch my head and ask myself why is that sense not in the lexica (Thayer / BDAG)?
It is my conjecture that the thinking that has been followed to exclude the ADV-T from the definition / a form of logic that could have been used that would exclude it would be something like this: In the time of the patriarchs they saw the promised land from afar πόρρωθεν, the prophets continued that language with a sense like that when we would put in inverted commas viz. "from afar" (to quote the patriarchs or follow in their sense of the word). If we keep it in THEIR frame of reference (which is the precursor to the later framework, but with limited pre-Christ event revelation) "from afar" of Heb.11:13 was referring to a meaning carried on in the prophetic tradition being the successors of the patriarchs.
BUT in the new testament (the Christian dispensation), the writer of the Hebrews (I think it seems from the gospel message and Christian tradition) in keeping with the cosmic reorientation of revelation that happened at the incarnation of the person of Christ, used the words of the prophets in a sense that they did not realise fully to say that you were not just following the tradition of the patriarchs looking for the promised land, you were actually looking forward to Jesus and the kingdom of God - the Church. Without including the ADV-T the overall sense of the change of Christian revelation is a little more difficult to see.
Now, I am not suggesting that a new sense of the word should be introduced to fit a theological idea, but seeing that being an ADV-T is something that does come naturally to πόρρωθεν, it would be good if readers were able to see from a reference work that translating πόρρωθεν temporally ADV-T is a possibility when it looks obvious from the verse that a temporal sense is a logically possible way of taking it.
Any thoughts or wisdom?
Looking at the meaning of πόρρω in Greek, it would be something like ὃ διαφέρει πολύ ἢ ἔχει μεγάλην ἀπόστασιν (and I guess that according to the traditional glosses that LSJ has the ἀ. could be τοπ. and χρον.). And in BDAG, as for πόρρω, πόρρωθεν seems to limited to an ADV-PL and T sense. If we wanted to understand the -θεν in Greek, we would probably use add an ἀπὸ τινός to the above meaning. It seems to me that a temporal separation between the prophets and the promise is intended by the πόρρωθεν in Heb.11:13. Considering that it has a possible LXX precedent and classical examples, I scratch my head and ask myself why is that sense not in the lexica (Thayer / BDAG)?
It is my conjecture that the thinking that has been followed to exclude the ADV-T from the definition / a form of logic that could have been used that would exclude it would be something like this: In the time of the patriarchs they saw the promised land from afar πόρρωθεν, the prophets continued that language with a sense like that when we would put in inverted commas viz. "from afar" (to quote the patriarchs or follow in their sense of the word). If we keep it in THEIR frame of reference (which is the precursor to the later framework, but with limited pre-Christ event revelation) "from afar" of Heb.11:13 was referring to a meaning carried on in the prophetic tradition being the successors of the patriarchs.
BUT in the new testament (the Christian dispensation), the writer of the Hebrews (I think it seems from the gospel message and Christian tradition) in keeping with the cosmic reorientation of revelation that happened at the incarnation of the person of Christ, used the words of the prophets in a sense that they did not realise fully to say that you were not just following the tradition of the patriarchs looking for the promised land, you were actually looking forward to Jesus and the kingdom of God - the Church. Without including the ADV-T the overall sense of the change of Christian revelation is a little more difficult to see.
Now, I am not suggesting that a new sense of the word should be introduced to fit a theological idea, but seeing that being an ADV-T is something that does come naturally to πόρρωθεν, it would be good if readers were able to see from a reference work that translating πόρρωθεν temporally ADV-T is a possibility when it looks obvious from the verse that a temporal sense is a logically possible way of taking it.
Any thoughts or wisdom?