For a discussion of the αὐτός versus οὗτος question,
see this thread at Ancient Greek Best Practices
tags: 3rd Person Pronoun, demonstrative, anaphoric, anaphora, deitic, deixis, intensive pronoun, indentifying pronoun, identifiers, δεικτικαὶ ἀντωνυμίαι
Αυτός
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Re: Αυτός
Hi Paul, how then would you interpret αὐτός in the following phrases then? Would you still argue that it is not a simple 3rd person pronoun?
- αὐτός καί οἱ μετά αὐτοῦ (Mk 2.25)
- αὐτὸς καὶ ἡ μήτηρ αὐτοῦ καὶ οἱ ἀδελφοὶ καὶ οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ, (Jn 2:12)
Emma Ehrhardt
Computational Linguist
Computational Linguist
Re: Αυτός
Thanks for the question. This is just what I was wanting to do, look up uses of αυτος in the NOM (and in a predicate position) to see if I could find exceptions. περὶ τοῦτο, συμβάλωμεν (about this, let's throw together/consider/engage/help one another).
I looked at your examples and a few others I found in BDAG. In the following verses you see a similar pattern: He [verb], αὐτός καὶ [others].
In each of these thoughts, I can see how αυτος is playing its role as an identifier.
As far as interpretation, I wouldn’t think this use of αυτος wouldn’t have any real significance. It’s simply the way a writer of Greek would express the thought.
The issue of translation is a separate question. I would agree that it should be simply translated as "he." But does that choice for a translation of αυτος here mean that αυτος has the same meaning as a normal use of English "he"? It certainly doesn't have the bland meaning "he," as in the English sentence "he walks." περιπατεῖ is bland "he walks," but αὐτός περιπατεῖ says more, "he himself walks." Could it be that in the English rendition of these thoughts the English word “he” is playing the same special identifying role as αυτος. "He was hungry, [in fact] HE and others." English does it with word order, whereas Greek does it with both word order and (ahem) the word itself, αυτος .
But now I'm really getting into the weeds. Help!
προσδοκῶ τὸ συμβαλεῖν ὑμῶν
I looked at your examples and a few others I found in BDAG. In the following verses you see a similar pattern: He [verb], αὐτός καὶ [others].
- ἐπείνασεν αὐτὸς καὶ οἱ μετʼ αὐτοῦ
He was hungry, he and those with him. Mark 2:25
κατέβη… αὐτὸς καὶ ἡ μήτηρ αὐτοῦ
He went down…, he and his mother. John 2:12
ἐπίστευσεν αὐτὸς καὶ ἡ οἰκία αὐτοῦ ὅλη
He believed, he and his whole house. John 4:53
εἰσῆλθεν αὐτὸς καὶ οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ.
He went in, he and his disciples. John 18:1
In each of these thoughts, I can see how αυτος is playing its role as an identifier.
As far as interpretation, I wouldn’t think this use of αυτος wouldn’t have any real significance. It’s simply the way a writer of Greek would express the thought.
- The writer had the subject named already in the earlier part of the sentence, e.g.
- “He was hungry.” ἐπείνασεν
So, the writer identifies the subject again with αὐτός and adds the real point:- “HE and those with him.” αὐτὸς καὶ οἱ μετʼ αὐτοῦ
The issue of translation is a separate question. I would agree that it should be simply translated as "he." But does that choice for a translation of αυτος here mean that αυτος has the same meaning as a normal use of English "he"? It certainly doesn't have the bland meaning "he," as in the English sentence "he walks." περιπατεῖ is bland "he walks," but αὐτός περιπατεῖ says more, "he himself walks." Could it be that in the English rendition of these thoughts the English word “he” is playing the same special identifying role as αυτος. "He was hungry, [in fact] HE and others." English does it with word order, whereas Greek does it with both word order and (ahem) the word itself, αυτος .
But now I'm really getting into the weeds. Help!
προσδοκῶ τὸ συμβαλεῖν ὑμῶν
Paul D. Nitz - Lilongwe Malawi