πνεῦμα as Spirit or spirit?
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πνεῦμα as Spirit or spirit?
It seems that in English versions πνεῦμα is rendered as "Spirit" very often. Has that been discussed on B-Greek before?
One of the things I noticed about going from New Testament Greek to Modern Greek was that πνεύμα (πνεῦμα) in Modern Greek is used far more often of the human mind / intellect than what is understood in English translations of the New Testament. I think that there are several plausible reasons for that; perhaps the literature written in Modern Greek is secular, or perhaps the word is over translated as "Spirit" (referring to God's Spirit) in the New Testament. I've been wondering about that for a while and would be interested to tie that loose-end up.
One of the things I noticed about going from New Testament Greek to Modern Greek was that πνεύμα (πνεῦμα) in Modern Greek is used far more often of the human mind / intellect than what is understood in English translations of the New Testament. I think that there are several plausible reasons for that; perhaps the literature written in Modern Greek is secular, or perhaps the word is over translated as "Spirit" (referring to God's Spirit) in the New Testament. I've been wondering about that for a while and would be interested to tie that loose-end up.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
Re: πνεῦμα as Spirit or spirit?
An examination of the archives (pre-forum) and a search of this forum should indicate whether it's been discussed -- I don't remember such a discussion since I've been a member. But to answer your question, I think you are presenting a bit of a false dichotomy. πνεῦμα had a range of meaning which made it particularly suitable to be used of "Spirit" by the NT writers. The range of meaning also made it suitable to use it for "spirit" in general (we certainly find that usage in the NT). Here's where a knowledge of Greek outside the biblical literature is helpful. Look at the range of usage for our English word. Outside of the Bible and church/theology type of contexts, what does it mean? "He has real spirit" and some schools call their pep-rallies "spirit day." So, yeah, I think that in secular Greek we see a particular usage and diachronic development of the word. I doubt that it has anything to do with mistranslations in the NT...Stephen Hughes wrote:It seems that in English versions πνεῦμα is rendered as "Spirit" very often. Has that been discussed on B-Greek before?
One of the things I noticed about going from New Testament Greek to Modern Greek was that πνεύμα (πνεῦμα) in Modern Greek is used far more often of the human mind / intellect than what is understood in English translations of the New Testament. I think that there are several plausible reasons for that; perhaps the literature written in Modern Greek is secular, or perhaps the word is over translated as "Spirit" (referring to God's Spirit) in the New Testament. I've been wondering about that for a while and would be interested to tie that loose-end up.
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Re: πνεῦμα as Spirit or spirit?
Dear Stephen,Stephen Hughes wrote:It seems that in English versions πνεῦμα is rendered as "Spirit" very often. Has that been discussed on B-Greek before?
One of the things I noticed about going from New Testament Greek to Modern Greek was that πνεύμα (πνεῦμα) in Modern Greek is used far more often of the human mind / intellect than what is understood in English translations of the New Testament. I think that there are several plausible reasons for that; perhaps the literature written in Modern Greek is secular, or perhaps the word is over translated as "Spirit" (referring to God's Spirit) in the New Testament. I've been wondering about that for a while and would be interested to tie that loose-end up.
My view is that Bible translators should make as few choices as possible on the part of the readers. In other words, a translation that is as literal as possible will best serve the interests of the readers who want to work with the text of the Bible on their own. In many cases the Bible translators must make choices for the readers, and the translation of πνεύμα is one such case. Translation is interpretation, and the translators’ understanding of the text will influence their choices. This is necessary and legitimate, but when a choice based on one’s theology in not necessary, it should be avoided.
There are three basic issues in connection with the translation of πνεύμα in the NT:
1) About half of the instances of pneuma ‘agion (the Greek characters do not appear) lack the article. Should the article be added in translation because half of the instances have the article? Or conversely, in all the instances where the article occurs, it can be viewed as anaphoric, so the article can be viewed as pragmatic rather than semantic.
2) Capital letters are not marked in the Greek manuscripts, so should capital letters be added?
3) When the word pneuma stands alone, does it refer to pneuma ‘agion or to something else?
The decisions of Bible translators are different, based on their theological understanding. I use two passages as an example:
In John 20:22, pneuma 'agion occur without article. In “The Holy Bible in Modern Greek” (1955), there is no article, but both words have capital letters. In he Greek New World Translation (1997) there are no article and no capital letters. The English NIV has added the article and has “the Goly Spirit.”
In John 14:26, both pneuma and 'agion have the article. The Greek Translation of 1955 has two articles and two capital letters; the Greek translation of 1997 has one article and the adjective stands before the substantive; no capital letters occur. The NIV has “the Holy Spirit.”
In these examples there are no clear linguistic arguments in favor of either of the choices of the two translations in Modern Greek, so the choices must be be based on the theological understanding of the translators. In such cases, footnotes with explanations would be a service to the readers.
Best regards,
Rolf Furuli
Stavern
Norway
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Greek and Englis don't have articular correspondences
The use or non-use of the article in Greek (or Modern Greek) doesn't have a lot to do whether an English translation includes either a definite or indefinite article. They are different languages working on the basis of their own grammatical rule systems.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
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Re: Greek and Englis don't have articular correspondences
There are differences and similarities, of course. I'm not sure about the "a lot" however, as they all have same basic function of identifiability, though with lots of idiomatic differences around the margins. That differences show up in modern translations indicates that it is a guide to how the translators interpret it, sort of like commentaries on the cheap.Stephen Hughes wrote:The use or non-use of the article in Greek (or Modern Greek) doesn't have a lot to do whether an English translation includes either a definite or indefinite article. They are different languages working on the basis of their own grammatical rule systems.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Melbourne, Australia
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The special context and specific meaning
Barry Hofstetter wrote:An examination of the archives (pre-forum) and a search of this forum should indicate whether it's been discussed -- I don't remember such a discussion since I've been a member. But to answer your question, I think you are presenting a bit of a false dichotomy. πνεῦμα had a range of meaning which made it particularly suitable to be used of "Spirit" by the NT writers. The range of meaning also made it suitable to use it for "spirit" in general (we certainly find that usage in the NT). Here's where a knowledge of Greek outside the biblical literature is helpful. Look at the range of usage for our English word. Outside of the Bible and church/theology type of contexts, what does it mean? "He has real spirit" and some schools call their pep-rallies "spirit day." So, yeah, I think that in secular Greek we see a particular usage and diachronic development of the word. I doubt that it has anything to do with mistranslations in the NT...
I think a dichotomy has come to exist between the understanding of Biblical and secular Koine literature. My guess is that because our attention is usually given to the Biblical texts, we see the word πνεῦμα as almost exclusively with meaning that is special to our context.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
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an English translation - a translation into English
I'm sorry that was not expressed clearly. I suppose that my "an English translation" could mean a translation of the Bible into English, like the RSV, KJV or etc., but it could also mean "a translation (of a particular verse or phrase) into idiomatic English" following the rules of the articles in English.Stephen Carlson wrote:There are differences and similarities, of course. I'm not sure about the "a lot" however, as they all have same basic function of identifiability, though with lots of idiomatic differences around the margins. That differences show up in modern translations indicates that it is a guide to how the translators interpret it, sort of like commentaries on the cheap.Stephen Hughes wrote:The use or non-use of the article in Greek (or Modern Greek) doesn't have a lot to do whether an English translation includes either a definite or indefinite article. They are different languages working on the basis of their own grammatical rule systems.
As for the context of my statement, I was thinking about the language in translation, rather then the translations of the Bible into English. I'm sorry about that.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
Re: The special context and specific meaning
Are you then saying that there are specific mistransations resulting from this perspective? Again, lingustically speaking, it's not a matter of a dichotomy, but a matter of sentantic range determined by context. If at a football game someone says "We've got the spirit" and at a church someone says "We've got the Spirit" it's only context that shows they mean quite different things (which I've reflected orthographically, but certainly is not detemined in a speech event by anything other than context).Stephen Hughes wrote:
I think a dichotomy has come to exist between the understanding of Biblical and secular Koine literature. My guess is that because our attention is usually given to the Biblical texts, we see the word πνεῦμα as almost exclusively with meaning that is special to our context.
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Re: πνεῦμα as Spirit or spirit?
Here is another verse in point:
Does the writer of Acts want us to make a choice? It's my understanding he likes to place phrases which could be modified by or modify several different words in a sentence. Do later readers (centuries later) with the full ΝΤ corpus default to 'τῷ ἁγίῳ πνεύματι'? Lake/Jackson-Foakes (The Beginnings of Christianity, Vol. IV, p. 232) drops this 'the Spirit' as a possibility - from context as Aquila did not seem to be subsequently baptized by anyone - and may already have received the Spirit. But it seems like ζέων needs a referent (a dative of reference) - but either Spirit or spirit would work with the grammar. What's a translator/editor to do? If one includes capitals anywhere, one makes a choice for the reader everywhere (Greek or English versions).Acts: 18:24 Ἰουδαῖος δέ τις Ἀπολλῶς ὀνόματι, Ἀλεξανδρεὺς τῷ γένει, ἀνὴρ λόγιος, κατήντησεν εἰς Ἔφεσον, δυνατὸς ὢν ἐν ταῖς γραφαῖς. 25 οὗτος ἦν κατηχημένος τὴν ὁδὸν τοῦ κυρίου καὶ ζέων τῷ πνεύματι ἐλάλει καὶ ἐδίδασκεν ἀκριβῶς τὰ περὶ τοῦ Ἰησοῦ, ἐπιστάμενος μόνον τὸ βάπτισμα Ἰωάννου· (NA27)
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Re: πνεῦμα as Spirit or spirit?
The verse that got me started thinking about this was
After noticing that, and thinking about the word's useage in the wider Greek language, I suspected that there could be a pattern at work with this word.
Which could be rendered with the sense of "Do your best to keep your hearts together with the one purpose without getting into competition with each other (I take competition as the outcome of the opposite of ταπεινοφροσύνη and πρᾳότης) and live peacefully with each other" or it could be rendered as "come close to God's spirit, with his peace holding us tight". I can see how the more "spiritual" rendering of πνεῦμα could work, but I prefer the neutral / human-natural understanding.Ephesians 4:3 wrote:σπουδάζοντες τηρεῖν τὴν ἑνότητα τοῦ πνεύματος ἐν τῷ συνδέσμῳ τῆς εἰρήνης.
After noticing that, and thinking about the word's useage in the wider Greek language, I suspected that there could be a pattern at work with this word.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)