How do you say moo?

Semantic Range, Lexicography, and other approaches to word meaning - in general, or for particular words.
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Jonathan Robie
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How do you say moo?

Post by Jonathan Robie » April 30th, 2016, 4:59 pm

Woodhouse has failed me.

How do you say "moo" in Hellenistic Greek?
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

cwconrad
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Re: How do you say moo?

Post by cwconrad » April 30th, 2016, 6:05 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:Woodhouse has failed me.

How do you say "moo" in Hellenistic Greek?
You might try μυκᾶσθαι. In the GNT it's used of a lion roaring (Rev.10:3) and see L&N$§§14.74-86; I would have thought that βοᾶν should derive from βοῦς, but evidently it doesn't. μυκᾶσθαι is the verb, μύκημα the noun for lowing or bellowing.
So: say "moo-cow", add a middle ending, and stir gently ...
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οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

Wes Wood
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Re: How do you say moo?

Post by Wes Wood » April 30th, 2016, 6:37 pm

A little late to the party. Feel good about the first two (to moo or bellow) and (moo-er or bellower) but the last two entries are for the μυ μυ part of their entries: μυκάομαι, μυκηθμός, μυγμός, μύζω

Citations for the first:
Μυκαλησσὸν δὲ ὁμολογοῦσιν ὀνομασθῆναι, διότι ἡ βοῦς ἐνταῦθα ἐμυκήσατο ἡ Κάδμον καὶ τὸν σὺν αὐτῷ στρατὸν ἄγουσα ἐς Θήβας. ὅντινα δὲ τρόπον ἐγένετο ἡ Μυκαλησσὸς ἀνάστατος, τὰ ἐς Ἀθηναίους ἔχοντα ἐδήλωσέ μοι τοῦ λόγου. (Paus. 9.19)

ἐν δ᾽ ἀγέλην ποίησε βοῶν ὀρθοκραιράων: αἳ δὲ βόες χρυσοῖο τετεύχατο κασσιτέρου τε, μυκηθμῷ δ᾽ ἀπὸ κόπρου ἐπεσσεύοντο νομὸν δὲ πὰρ ποταμὸν κελάδοντα, παρὰ ῥοδανὸν δονακῆα. χρύσειοι δὲ νομῆες ἅμ᾽ ἐστιχόωντο βόεσσι τέσσαρες, ἐννέα δέ σφι κύνες πόδας ἀργοὶ ἕποντο. σμερδαλέω δὲ λέοντε δύ᾽ ἐν πρώτῃσι βόεσσι ταῦρον ἐρύγμηλον ἐχέτην: ὃ δὲ μακρὰ μεμυκὼς ἕλκετο: τὸν δὲ κύνες μετεκίαθον ἠδ᾽ αἰζηοί. τὼ μὲν ἀναρρήξαντε βοὸς μεγάλοιο βοείην ἔγκατα καὶ μέλαν αἷμα λαφύσσετον: (Hom. Il. 18.580)
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Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ

Wes Wood
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Re: How do you say moo?

Post by Wes Wood » April 30th, 2016, 6:39 pm

Not sure about the Hellenistic Greek part, though...
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Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ

Stephen Hughes
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Re: How do you say moo?

Post by Stephen Hughes » May 1st, 2016, 12:25 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:How do you say "moo" in Hellenistic Greek?
It depends on your pronunciation system.

Perhaps if your υ has not closed up the Classical μυκῶμαι is still onomatopoeic, and if it has then you could spell it according to the Mediaeval μουγκούμαι.
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Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

cwconrad
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Re: How do you say moo?

Post by cwconrad » May 1st, 2016, 7:23 am

Wes Wood wrote:A little late to the party. Feel good about the first two (to moo or bellow) and (moo-er or bellower) but the last two entries are for the μυ μυ part of their entries: μυκάομαι, μυκηθμός, μυγμός, μύζω

Citations for the first:
Μυκαλησσὸν δὲ ὁμολογοῦσιν ὀνομασθῆναι, διότι ἡ βοῦς ἐνταῦθα ἐμυκήσατο ἡ Κάδμον καὶ τὸν σὺν αὐτῷ στρατὸν ἄγουσα ἐς Θήβας. ὅντινα δὲ τρόπον ἐγένετο ἡ Μυκαλησσὸς ἀνάστατος, τὰ ἐς Ἀθηναίους ἔχοντα ἐδήλωσέ μοι τοῦ λόγου. (Paus. 9.19)

ἐν δ᾽ ἀγέλην ποίησε βοῶν ὀρθοκραιράων: αἳ δὲ βόες χρυσοῖο τετεύχατο κασσιτέρου τε, μυκηθμῷ δ᾽ ἀπὸ κόπρου ἐπεσσεύοντο νομὸν δὲ πὰρ ποταμὸν κελάδοντα, παρὰ ῥοδανὸν δονακῆα. χρύσειοι δὲ νομῆες ἅμ᾽ ἐστιχόωντο βόεσσι τέσσαρες, ἐννέα δέ σφι κύνες πόδας ἀργοὶ ἕποντο. σμερδαλέω δὲ λέοντε δύ᾽ ἐν πρώτῃσι βόεσσι ταῦρον ἐρύγμηλον ἐχέτην: ὃ δὲ μακρὰ μεμυκὼς ἕλκετο: τὸν δὲ κύνες μετεκίαθον ἠδ᾽ αἰζηοί. τὼ μὲν ἀναρρήξαντε βοὸς μεγάλοιο βοείην ἔγκατα καὶ μέλαν αἷμα λαφύσσετον: (Hom. Il. 18.580)
I guess that Pausanias figures as Hellenistic, albeit an Atticist (you be the judge!). But I really love the lines from the ἐκφράσις of Hephaestus' new shield of Achilles: just sound out that marvelous opening line -- spondaic, no less: a dactylic hexameter with only two dactyls and four spondees, which underscores the entire moo-cow-lick quality of that line:
ἐν δ᾽ ἀγέ/ λην ποί/ ησε βο/ ῶν ὀρ/ θοκραι/ ράων
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οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

Stephen Hughes
Posts: 3323
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: How do you say moo?

Post by Stephen Hughes » May 1st, 2016, 9:23 am

Stephen Hughes wrote:γκ
Off topic, so I'll be brief. To explain the γκ... The Mediaeval γκ for "g" is indirect evidence of a change in the value of γ from a "g" to that throat-clearing sound or a "y" ("j"). That happened in the post-Koine period. In some papyri from the Koine period, there is a substitution of κ for γ (but that is a different period to this later change that I'm mentioning).
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Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

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