Trivia: Is χρυσελεφαντήλεκτρος the longest word in Greek?

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Stephen Hughes
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Trivia: Is χρυσελεφαντήλεκτρος the longest word in Greek?

Post by Stephen Hughes »

Is this two termination adjective χρυσελεφαντήλεκτρος "overlaid with gold, ivory and amber" found in
Plutarch, [i]Timoleon[/i] 31.1 wrote: τάσδ᾽ ὀστρειογραφεῖς καὶ χρυσελεφαντηλέκτρους ἀσπίδας ἀσπιδίοις εἵλομεν εὐτελέσι.
"These bucklers, purple-painted, decked with ivory, gold, and amber,
We captured with our simple little shields." [Bernadotte Perrin, 1918 (tr.)]
- with 20 letters as it is used here - the longest word in Greek?

No, but in prose it is up there with the best of them (Griechische Wortbildungslehre section 161), but there seems to be one bigger in verse; It is the 22 letter τορνευτολυρασπιδοπηγός "lyre-tunner and shield-maker" of Aristophanes, Birds 491

cf. Griechische Wortbildungslehre Section 83 and Section 161 thanks to Edgar Krentz and Jonathan Robie for the reference and source]
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
Stephen Carlson
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Re: Trivia: Is χρυσελεφαντήλεκτρος the longest word in Greek

Post by Stephen Carlson »

From Wikipedia:
In his comedy Assemblywomen (c. 392 BC) Aristophanes coined the 173-letter word λοπαδο­τεμαχο­σελαχο­γαλεο­κρανιο­λειψανο­δριμ­υπο­τριμματο­σιλφιο­καραβο­μελιτο­κατακεχυ­μενο­κιχλ­επι­κοσσυφο­φαττο­περιστερ­αλεκτρυον­οπτο­κεφαλλιο­κιγκλο­πελειο­λαγῳο­σιραιο­βαφη­τραγανο­πτερύγων. A fictional food dish consisting of a combination of fish, poultry and other meat, hare usually refers to rabbit, it is cited as the longest ancient Greek word ever written.
I'd say this example is more a testament to Greek's compounding prowess rather than a legitimate word, but there it is for what it's worth.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Stephen Hughes
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Re: Trivia: Is χρυσελεφαντήλεκτρος the longest word in Greek

Post by Stephen Hughes »

Stephen Carlson wrote:I'd say this example is more a testament to Greek's compounding prowess rather than a legitimate word, but there it is for what it's worth.
That is interesting, but I think that including the participial form "κατακεχυ­μενο­-" in the compound puts the word into another class not covered in the Griechische Wortbildungslehre work that we are considering these days. It is probably a suggestion that the word would have been read as a sentence with various parts of speech understood for when adjectives are read. I guess that native speakers would have the ability to quickly change the adjectives to the other parts of speech.

What is the longest word in the New Testament, do you know?
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
cwconrad
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Re: Trivia: Is χρυσελεφαντήλεκτρος the longest word in Greek

Post by cwconrad »

If you guys intend to slug it out this way on the line of battle, I shall raise my flag of Antisesquipedalianism and insist that you heed Jonathan's recently-coined policy, to wit: ""Be merciful. If you are writing about a topic that mere mortals can grasp, write something mere mortals can read." I shall fling out the accusation that you're writing "jargon" and you will have to explain exactly what these words mean for those of us recently characterized as κοινοὶ ἀνθρωποι.
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
Stephen Hughes
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Explanation for those characterised as κοινοὶ ἀνθρωποι.

Post by Stephen Hughes »

Stephen Carlson wrote:
Aristophanes Ecclesiazusae (Ἐκκλησιάζουσαι) line 1169-1175 wrote:λοπαδο­τεμαχο­σελαχο­γαλεο-
­κρανιο­λειψανο­δριμ­υπο­τριμματο-
­σιλφιο­καραβο­μελιτο­κατακεχυ­μενο-
­κιχλ­επι­κοσσυφο­φαττο­περιστερ­α-
λεκτρυον­οπτο­κεφαλλιο­κιγκλο­πε-
λειο­λαγῳο­σιραιο­βαφη­τραγα-
νο­πτερύγων.
cwconrad wrote:I shall fling out the accusation that you're writing "jargon" and you will have to explain exactly what these words mean for those of us recently characterized as κοινοὶ ἀνθρωποι.
The μέλιτος κατακεχυ­μένο­υ that I mentioned is a genitive absolute meaning something like, "with the honeypot being completely emptied into the dish"

As for the whole word it is made up of these component parts:
λοπαδο-- λοπάς , άδος, ἡ, dish (it could mean the sense of the the plate or the food)
τεμαχο-- τέμαχος , εος, τό, slice(s) (especially of fish)
σελαχο-- σέλαχος , εος, τό, cartilaginous fishes, sharks and rays
γαλεο-- γαλεός , ὁ, dog-fish or small shark
κρανιο-- κρανίον, τό, upper part of the head, skull
λειψανο-- λείψανον , τό, piece left, remnant
δριμ-- δριμύς, εῖα, ύ, keen, acrid
υποτριμματο-- ὑπότριμμα, ατος, τό, a dish compounded of various ingredients grated and pounded up together,(its general taste was sour or piquant)
σιλφιο-- σίλφιον, τό, silfium, laserwort, Ferula tingitana (the juice of which was used in food and medicine)
καραβο-- κάραβος, ο (sic < perseus-LSJ), a prickly crustacean, crayfish
μελιτο-- μέλι, τό, honey
κατακεχυμενο-- καταχέειν, to pour down
κιχλ-- ???? [I've no clue as to this - having only read 3 of Aristophanes plays from start to end and various oither fragments - perhaps a flag-raising scholar with years experience could lend their attention to these three letters...]
επι-- ἐπιτιθέναι (or ἐπικεῖσθαι) IV. put on as a finish
κοσσυφο-- κόσσυφος , ὁ, blackbird or sea fish.
φαττο-- φάττα , ἡ, ringdove or cushat. Columba palumbus
περιστερ-- περιστερά , ἡ, A.common pigeon or dove
αλεκτρυον-ἀλεκτρυών, όνος, ὁ, cock
οπτο-- ὀπτός, ή, όν, roasted, broiled
κεφαλλιο- ??? κεφαλίς , ίδος, ἡ, capital of a column (perhaps in the sense of "topped off with")
κιγκλο-- κίγκλος , ὁ, prob. dabchick, Podiceps ruficollis
πελειο-- πέλεια , ἡ, dove or pigeon, esp. wild rock-pigeon, Columba livia
λαγῳο-- λαγῷος , α, ον, of the hare
σιραιο-- σίραιον, τό, new wine boiled down
βαφη-- βαφή , ἡ, dipping; dye
τραγανο-- τραγανός , ή, όν, eatable
πτερύγων -- πτέρυξ, υγος, ἡ (= πτερύγια), fins of fish

My attempt at putting that into word by words Greek is:
λοπάδα παρασκευασμένον ἐκ τέμαχους ἀπὸ τοῦ σέλαχοὺς (conjectured adj. in -ης, -ες) γαλεοῦ τοῦ κρανίου λειψάνου. Δριμύ (ἡδυμμένον) τε καὶ ὑποτριμμώδες σιλφίῳ καὶ καράβῳ. μέλιτος δὲ κατακεχυμένου ἐπιθεμένον (λοπάδι) κοσσύφους, φάττας, περιστερὰς καὶ ἀλεκτρυόνας. Ὀπτεύμενον δὲ ὑπὸ κεφαλίδος κίγκλων τε καὶ πελείων ἐν τῇ ἐκ λαγῳου σιραίου βαφῇ τραγανῶν πτερύγων.

"A dish of slices of the edible fins taken from the skull part of the cartilaginous dog-fish, seasoned with acrid and sour laserwort and crayfish, with lashings of honey poured over them, topped with blackbirds, ringdoves, pigeons and cocks boiled in a marinade of boild down hare's blood under a topping of dabchicks and wild rock pigeons"

Is that a pausible way of breaking it up into grammar?
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
cwconrad
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Re: Explanation for those characterised as κοινοὶ ἀνθρωποι.

Post by cwconrad »

Stephen Hughes wrote:
cwconrad wrote:I shall fling out the accusation that you're writing "jargon" and you will have to explain exactly what these words mean for those of us recently characterized as κοινοὶ ἀνθρωποι.
The μέλιτος κατακεχυ­μένο­υ that I mentioned is a genitive absolute meaning something like, "with the honeypot being completely emptied into the dish"

As for the whole word it is made up of these component parts:
... etc, etc.
My attempt at putting that into word by words Greek is:
λοπάδα παρασκευασμένον ἐκ τέμαχους ἀπὸ τοῦ σέλαχοὺς (conjectured adj. in -ης, -ες) γαλεοῦ τοῦ κρανίου λειψάνου. Δριμύ (ἡδυμμένον) τε καὶ ὑποτριμμώδες σιλφίῳ καὶ καράβῳ. μέλιτος δὲ κατακεχυμένου ἐπιθεμένον (λοπάδι) κοσσύφους, φάττας, περιστερὰς καὶ ἀλεκτρυόνας. Ὀπτεύμενον δὲ ὑπὸ κεφαλίδος κίγκλων τε καὶ πελείων ἐν τῇ ἐκ λαγῳου σιραίου βαφῇ τραγανῶν πτερύγων.

"A dish of slices of the edible fins taken from the skull part of the cartilaginous dog-fish, seasoned with acrid and sour laserwort and crayfish, with lashings of honey poured over them, topped with blackbirds, ringdoves, pigeons and cocks boiled in a marinade of boild down hare's blood under a topping of dabchicks and wild rock pigeons"

Is that a pausible way of breaking it up into grammar?
εὖγε, ὦ φίλε! τίπτ’ ἀλλο λέγοιμ’ ἄν, εὶ μή· "Now, wasn't that a dainty dish to set before the king?"
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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