Is learning accents really important?

Stephen Carlson
Posts: 2734
Joined: May 11th, 2011, 10:51 am
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: Is learning accents really important?

Post by Stephen Carlson » November 30th, 2017, 4:29 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:
November 30th, 2017, 12:34 pm
How many passages can we think of that are ambiguous without accents (but not with accents)? Do they fall into a small number of set categories?
Any passage with a liquid future (e.g. κρινεῖ vs. κρίνει) is potentially ambiguous without accents. Some names like Junias/Junia differ in certain case forms only by accent. Also, orthotone and enclitic σοῦ, σοί, σέ have different pragmatic effects.
0 x


Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia

Stephen Carlson
Posts: 2734
Joined: May 11th, 2011, 10:51 am
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: Is learning accents really important?

Post by Stephen Carlson » November 30th, 2017, 4:31 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:
November 30th, 2017, 10:37 am
In the beginning, I would probably focus on the accents that distinguish words that are easy to confuse. And always take accents into account when you pronounce the words, don't teach yourself to mispronounce words, that is hard to unlearn later.
+1 The part I put in red is why it's important to pay attention to accents.
0 x
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia

daveburt
Posts: 47
Joined: October 30th, 2017, 11:18 pm

Re: Is learning accents really important?

Post by daveburt » November 30th, 2017, 6:22 pm

Mitch Tulloch wrote:
November 30th, 2017, 12:31 pm
I'm only interested in reading Koine Greek, not in speaking or writing it :-)
Is it possible for a human to read a language without hearing it in their head? Or to understand a language without being able to produce a sentence of their own?
0 x

Mitch Tulloch
Posts: 15
Joined: November 4th, 2017, 2:52 pm

Re: Is learning accents really important?

Post by Mitch Tulloch » November 30th, 2017, 6:41 pm

daveburt wrote:
November 30th, 2017, 6:22 pm
Mitch Tulloch wrote:
November 30th, 2017, 12:31 pm
I'm only interested in reading Koine Greek, not in speaking or writing it :-)
Is it possible for a human to read a language without hearing it in their head? Or to understand a language without being able to produce a sentence of their own?
OK but does it really matter if we mispronounce it in our head? Besides, there seems to be some uncertainty how Koine Greek was actually spoken (and perhaps there were regional dialects as well like NY vs SoCal vs MidWest American English).

--Mitch
0 x

Jonathan Robie
Posts: 3489
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Contact:

Re: Is learning accents really important?

Post by Jonathan Robie » November 30th, 2017, 6:52 pm

For modern languages, teachers believe it's important to use all four channels: reading, writing, listening, speaking. That's how you solidify language. And I think that's true for ancient languages too. It's just harder to get that exposure.

Exactly how you pronounce it isn't all that important, within reason. But getting the rhythm more or less sensible is. And if you ignore the accents, that's hard to do.
0 x
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

RandallButh
Posts: 969
Joined: May 13th, 2011, 4:01 am

Re: Is learning accents really important?

Post by RandallButh » December 1st, 2017, 1:49 pm

Besides, there seems to be some uncertainty how Koine Greek was actually spoken (and perhaps there were regional dialects as well like NY vs SoCal vs MidWest American English)
Please review the PDF on Greek Pronunciation at the BLC website. The objections quoted do not have merit. It is irrelevant exactly how o-mega was pronounced, but it is very relevant that o-mikron was pronounced in all the attested Koine dialects (post 100BCE) like o-mega was pronounced.

A Koine pronunciation will have EI=I, AI=E, O=W, OI=Y. The exact "color" of any of the vowels (the slight distinctions that would show dialectical origin) is irrelevant and can't be known, but those equations just cited are what majority audiences all over the Mediterranean were using when listening to Paul and Luke, ktl.
0 x

Post Reply