Greek - Greek learning resource ideas

Resources and methods for teaching and learning New Testament Greek.

Greek - Greek learning resource ideas

Postby Stephen Hughes » November 7th, 2013, 5:55 am

Stephen Hughes wrote:[Looking at a Greek construction] "in and of itself" is not such an easy thing to deal with, I find.
Justin Cofer wrote:So what's your opinion on the best way to help the student to get to this stage
Wes Wood wrote:Would you please make some suggestions on the types of materials you are referring to?
Stephen Hughes wrote:A comprehensive but simple Greek - Greek (with English in brackets) (L2-L2(with L1 in brackets)) learner's dictionary with synonyms antonyms and common useages (collocations). Students who have reached higher than intermediate should have access to Greek - Greek (L2-L2) reference materials (without English (L1) in brackets)


Well, these are wishlist items for Greek, not a available resources.

My own notes that serve me as a stop-gap look like:

ῥίζα - (1) τὸ εντὸς τῆς γῆς μέρος τῶν φυτῶν; (2) (μτφ.) βάσις, θεμέλιον
>>ῥίζα, καρπὸν, κλῆμα/κλάδος, βλαστός, φύλλον, ἄνθος||<<δένδρον, χόρτος||++ ῥιζόω||(( ἔχειν||))βαστάζειν||

If that were adapted for (lower) intermediate students, it looks ugly, but it could be:

ῥίζα - (1) τὸ εντὸς τῆς γῆς μέρος τῶν φυτῶν [the part of a plant which is in the ground]; (2) (μτφ.) βάσις [lowest part], θεμέλιον [foundation]
>>ῥίζα [root], καρπὸν [fruit], κλῆμα/ κλάδος [branch], βλαστός [bud], φύλλον [leaf], ἄνθος [flower - part of a plant]||<<δένδρον [tree]), χόρτος [grass], ἄνθος [flower - plant]||++ ῥιζόω [uproot]||(( ἔχειν [to have]||))βαστάζειν [to support]||

The symbols mean:
>> belongs to the group
<< is part of a
++ other related parts of speech
(( one can __ it
)) it can
Stephen Hughes wrote:A set of grammatical transformations for every point of grammar together with the traditional "explanations and translations". That is to say that for at least all the major points of grammar, students should learn how to express that point of grammar without using itself in the paraphrase.

By way of a simple example:

The genitive of material from which somethng is made can be expressed by an adjective in -ινος. Saying, "Can be expressed by a genitive in -ινος" as well as the usual explanation in English would probably be good for encouraging "in and of itself" interaction with the language.
Stephen Hughes
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself."
(Attributed to Albert Einstein)
Stephen Hughes
 
Posts: 1089
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am
Location: China

Re: Greek - Greek learning resource ideas

Postby cwconrad » November 7th, 2013, 9:51 am

I like this. I 'd like to see more of the same.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
… ἐπειδὴ καὶ τὸν οἶνον ἠξίους
πίνειν, συνεκποτέ’ ἐστί σοι καὶ τὴν τρύγα Aristophanes, Plutus 1085
cwconrad
 
Posts: 1253
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:52 pm
Location: Burnsville, NC 28714

γνήσιος

Postby Stephen Hughes » November 7th, 2013, 11:20 am

Based on Δημητράκου καὶ inputs & discussions by myself and other members, I suggest:

γνήσιος (1) (τέκνα) ὁ κατὰ νόμον γεννηθεῖς, ὁ διὰ νομίμου συζύγου τεχθεῖς, ὁ νόμμιμος; (2) (σύζυγος) νόμιμος, ἐννομος; (3) (μτφ.) ἀληθινός, καθαρός, φυσικός, ἄδολος
>σύζυγος>παλλακή, γυνή||>τέκνον/υἱός>νόθος||>ἀγάπη>ψευδής, πιστός, δόκιμος, κενοδοξία||

And with the training wheels on...

γνήσιος (1) (τέκνα [children]) ὁ κατὰ νόμον γεννηθεῖς [begotten according to law], ὁ διὰ νομίμου συζύγου τεχθεῖς [born of a legitimate wife], ὁ νόμμιμος [legitimate]; (2) (σύζυγος [spouse]) νόμιμος [legitimate], ἐννομος [legal]; (3) (μτφ.) ἀληθινός [true], καθαρός [pure], φυσικός [natural], ἄδολος [innocent]
>σύζυγος [spouse]>παλλακή [concubine], γυνή [wife]||>τέκνον/υἱός [child/son]>νόθος [bastard]||>ἀγάπη [love]>ψευδής [false], πιστός [faithful], δόκιμος [approved], κενοδοξία [unsubstantial outward show]||
Stephen Hughes
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself."
(Attributed to Albert Einstein)
Stephen Hughes
 
Posts: 1089
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am
Location: China

Re: Greek - Greek learning resource ideas

Postby Devenios Doulenios » November 7th, 2013, 4:41 pm

καλως ποιεις, ω Στεφανε!

τυπος αγαθος ταυτα γραφειν εστιν εν τω Λεξικω του βιβλιου Παις Ελληνη εν Οικω [Αγγλικη A Greek Boy at Home] του Rouse. 8-)

(You've done well [Histor. pres.], Stephen! A good model for writing these things is in the Vocabulary of the book Παις Ελληνη εν Οικω [In English A Greek Boy at Home] by Rouse.)

He gives short definitions in Greek for his vocabulary words in the Vocabulary section of that work. (Note: I do not have his book in front of me, so I don't recall if he actually gives a Greek version of the book's title. If not, hopefully the above attempt is close.)

Δεβἐνιος Δουλἐνιος
"τὴν ζωὴν καὶ τὸν θάνατον δέδωκα πρὸ προσώπου ὑμῶν τὴν εὐλογίαν καὶ τὴν κατάραν ἔκλεξαι τὴν ζωήν ἵνα ζῇς σὺ καὶ τὸ σπέρμα σου"-Dt. 30:19

"Ὁδοὶ δύο εἰσί, μία τῆς ζωῆς καὶ μία τοῦ θανάτου."--Διδαχή Α, α'
Devenios Doulenios
 
Posts: 72
Joined: May 31st, 2011, 5:11 pm
Location: Carlisle, Arkansas, USA

Re: Greek - Greek learning resource ideas

Postby Paul-Nitz » November 8th, 2013, 9:55 am

Image
Paul D. Nitz - Lilongwe Malawi
Paul-Nitz
 
Posts: 200
Joined: June 1st, 2011, 4:19 am

Re: Greek - Greek learning resource ideas

Postby Stephen Hughes » November 8th, 2013, 11:37 am

I'm guessing that that work is out of print (and out of copyright). Do you have any clue as to the reference for it?

The meanings are more or less those in Δημητράκου (not word for word, but the same meaning) except that Δ. has a lot of fluffing in the cushion. The thinking is to take into account "recent" (western) scholarship on the meaning of NT words. What the Greek-Greek wordbooks don't do is to give interpretative meanings just for the new testament as we have it. English lexica give us short cuts from time to time. An example right up he front of the dictionary is ἄγρα "a catch" which if just skim over it, we get the impression that it is naturally associated with / limited to ἰχθύων "fish". Given that it refers to catching things like fowl outside the NT, it is probable that only for fishermen it refers to a catch of fish. That narrowing of meaning is what we as (primarily) New Testament readers take as a given. To get that in it's broader Koine context is to understand it as a "catch" which in this case is of fish.

The next step towards the interpretative (situational meaning and opposites) way of forming an understanding such as my κενοδοξία or Carl's δόκιμος are not going to show up in standard works, but they are part of the familiarity and "feel" of the language, which we build up over time and long association. The old work on Synonyms by Trench has a few examples of this, but I find that they tend to be overly diachronic (and I hold little worth for etymology - except for the contemporary ways that words are formed). All of the synonyms and antonyms are going to be like that only from the stated or implied context.

Δημητράκου, like Τριανδαφυλίδης present their material in a way similar to what you have presented. I realise it is intoxicating to understand meanings in Greek, but I am suggesting that it is also useful to present, not only this excellent material Greek - Greek, but also to add the other information as a briddle in the mouth of those newly freed from the shackles of translation - the best freedom is one that is constrained or used for the good. Giving a student the ability to relate to their foreign language in the foreign language gives a sense of power, but also leaves them all at sea without an anchor. The things I am suggesting (situational synonyms, situational antonyms (or groups to which they belong) and common collocations) are put there with the dual purpose of ameliorating the pride that comes with knowledge and to serve as sea-lanes within which to sail the wine-dark ocean.
Stephen Hughes
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself."
(Attributed to Albert Einstein)
Stephen Hughes
 
Posts: 1089
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am
Location: China

Re: Greek - Greek learning resource ideas

Postby Devenios Doulenios » November 8th, 2013, 12:24 pm

Stephen Hughes wrote:I'm guessing that that work is out of print (and out of copyright). Do you have any clue as to the reference for it?


Are you asking about Rouse's Greek Boy at Home ?

Δεβἐνιος
"τὴν ζωὴν καὶ τὸν θάνατον δέδωκα πρὸ προσώπου ὑμῶν τὴν εὐλογίαν καὶ τὴν κατάραν ἔκλεξαι τὴν ζωήν ἵνα ζῇς σὺ καὶ τὸ σπέρμα σου"-Dt. 30:19

"Ὁδοὶ δύο εἰσί, μία τῆς ζωῆς καὶ μία τοῦ θανάτου."--Διδαχή Α, α'
Devenios Doulenios
 
Posts: 72
Joined: May 31st, 2011, 5:11 pm
Location: Carlisle, Arkansas, USA

Re: Greek - Greek learning resource ideas

Postby Stephen Hughes » November 8th, 2013, 12:50 pm

Devenios Doulenios wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:I'm guessing that that work is out of print (and out of copyright). Do you have any clue as to the reference for it?


Are you asking about Rouse's Greek Boy at Home ?

I wasn't in that post no I wasn't asking that question, sorry not to be clear. I meant the jpg that Paul the in Africa put up.

I searched for that book, and then did a few other things. But now that you mention Rouse again, I haven't been able to find it yet. All I found was that it was referred to as a Modern Greek book. When you do get a more precise reference, I'll be one of the ones looking forward to it.
Stephen Hughes
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself."
(Attributed to Albert Einstein)
Stephen Hughes
 
Posts: 1089
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am
Location: China

Re: Greek - Greek learning resource ideas

Postby Paul-Nitz » November 10th, 2013, 11:47 am

Stephen,

Rouse's dictionary is meant to support his serial story "A Greek Boy at Home." Here's a link. The dictionary is at the back of the book.

https://archive.org/details/greekboyathomest00rousuoft

The jpg I posted is from Favorini Camertis.
I have the pdf, but cannot find where I downloaded it from.
Mark Lightman put me on to it. Maybe he can find it.

The author's name is spelled 10 ways, Phavorinus Camertus, Camers, Φαβωρινος Καμηρς and more. I believe he was the Bishop of Nocera. It is written in minuscule and the printing (or scanning) was not absolutely clear. It was written sometime in the 1500's, was reprinted in 1801 in France. It must have been a mammoth page size (A3 size or larger). The vocabulary used in definitions and the script put the book beyond my reach, for now.
Paul D. Nitz - Lilongwe Malawi
Paul-Nitz
 
Posts: 200
Joined: June 1st, 2011, 4:19 am


Return to Teaching and Learning Greek

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest