Question about Living Koine materials

Resources and methods for teaching and learning New Testament Greek.
Jeremy Adams
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Location: Kansas City, Missouri

Question about Living Koine materials

Post by Jeremy Adams » November 7th, 2014, 2:35 am

Howdy!

To preface, I have decided to purchase the Living Koine materials to supplement the traditional curriculum that I am doing at seminary. We are using Mounce and next year we will start with Wallace. I have also been using Croy, Dobson, and Rollinson's books to supplement. I have found though, that despite being able to move through a lot of the Greek in Dobson very quickly, that when I try to listen to the audio recordings of those exercises I can't keep up! I would eventually like to be able to keep up with an audio Greek NT, and after reading many reviews on the internet I am thinking that the Living Koine books will be helpful in that regard and for reading fluency which is my number 1 goal. Anyhow, I am curious to hear of anyone's experiences with Living Koine and I have a question. The description of the first book says you learn about 235 lexical items. I am not sure how many you learn with the other books but I am guessing in total it would be less than 1000. So, what then? I see the appeal of associating Greek words with the ideas rather than English words by using pictures and what not, but after you've exhausted these materials wouldn't you have to bust out the flashcards and lexicon and start memorizing glosses and do it the old fashioned way? Even if you were using a Reader's Greek NT you would still be learning the glosses in the midst of your reading. I am fine if that is the case, but I am wondering if there is more to it than that. Thanks all!

Jacob Rhoden
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Re: Question about Living Koine materials

Post by Jacob Rhoden » December 14th, 2014, 7:19 am

The idea of materials for learning biblical greek, in the same style that other modern languages, is relatively new. Over time I expect there to be more and more resources.

Jeremy Adams
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Location: Kansas City, Missouri

Re: Question about Living Koine materials

Post by Jeremy Adams » December 15th, 2014, 1:40 am

Thanks for the reply. I have done the ten video lessons in part one and am doing the reading now. I suspect my estimate of vocab acquisition might have been low as the number of words added each lesson seems to go up, and with significantly more audio in parts 2a and 2b there might be more vocab than I thought. In any case, I am really enjoying the materials and finding them very helpful. I plan to get the next two parts in a few weeks and I am curious to see what I can learn with them.

Jacob Rhoden
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Re: Question about Living Koine materials

Post by Jacob Rhoden » January 1st, 2015, 7:27 am

I love the newer materials, but how do you go with the pronunciation differences. I'm not a huge fan of imaginary pronunciation :)

Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Question about Living Koine materials

Post by Barry Hofstetter » January 1st, 2015, 9:35 am

Jacob Rhoden wrote:I love the newer materials, but how do you go with the pronunciation differences. I'm not a huge fan of imaginary pronunciation :)
In ancient times, there would have been a variety of differences in pronunciation regionally, even for those holding to the Attic standard. Treat the modern variations as such.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
ἐγὼ δὲ διδάσκω τε καὶ γράφω ἵνα τὰ ἀξιώτερα μανθάνω

Jeremy Adams
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Location: Kansas City, Missouri

Re: Question about Living Koine materials

Post by Jeremy Adams » January 5th, 2015, 2:34 pm

Jacob Rhoden wrote:I love the newer materials, but how do you go with the pronunciation differences. I'm not a huge fan of imaginary pronunciation :)
I have not found it to be a bother to use both. In my seminary classes, which use Erasmian, we are not tested on our pronunciation, and even if we were, I have not forgotten how to do Erasmian. Other than that, I just find the Living Koine books to be quite good, and learning the pronunciation system of it doesn't take any extra work so it's not really a bother. I don't think it would be fair to call it imaginary though.

Paul-Nitz
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Re: Question about Living Koine materials

Post by Paul-Nitz » January 7th, 2015, 9:49 am

Nearly all pronounciations are just fine, but I prefer the Restored Koine. I lived for years thinking that Erasmian was choppy and unnatural. Then I found out I was right. It was imagined by Erasmus for the purpose of maintaining proper spelling. Modern Greek pronunciation is beautiful, but just no longer a good fit for Ancient Greek since it does not make the phonetic distinctions that had been made (υ ι η = ee). Restored Koine was based on research and reasonable criteria. It sounds natural and speaks natural, like a 2nd language speaker of Modern Greek. I like it.

Restored Attic(tonal) is the a pronunciation scheme that I really don't care for, though there is one speaker who does it beautifully.

On this Youtube playlist I collected some clips of people I felt were good speakers. If anyone has candidates for other good clips on Youtube, let me know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-s4tJG ... -41KeFPgGF
Paul D. Nitz - Lilongwe Malawi

Chris Servanti
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Re: Question about Living Koine materials

Post by Chris Servanti » November 3rd, 2015, 3:18 pm

Jacob Rhoden wrote:I love the newer materials, but how do you go with the pronunciation differences. I'm not a huge fan of imaginary pronunciation :)
This could be troublesome. I'm going through the same; I use one for personal studies and another for with my tutor. It's kind of like trying to learn spanish by using resources from both Spain and South America, it can be difficult and conflicting.

RandallButh
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Re: Question about Living Koine materials

Post by RandallButh » November 4th, 2015, 12:29 pm

Chris Servanti wrote:
Jacob Rhoden wrote:I love the newer materials, but how do you go with the pronunciation differences. I'm not a huge fan of imaginary pronunciation :)
This could be troublesome. I'm going through the same; I use one for personal studies and another for with my tutor. It's kind of like trying to learn spanish by using resources from both Spain and South America, it can be difficult and conflicting.
To be accurate for comparison and discussion, the truly "imaginary pronunciation" is/are the Erasmians (plural). Restored Koine allows one to feel the actual manuscripts when reading papyri from the Dead Sea (Babatha archive, BarKochba, etc.) and Greek inscriptions from around the Land. Imagine looking at a synagogue inscription at Tiveria in the Galilee and seeing ο μιζοτερος (for picture and commentary: http://www.biblicallanguagecenter.com/l ... -tiberias/), or the Bible verse in the tax office of Caesaria that says θελεις δε μη φοβισθαι ... (Rom 13:3). Restored Koine allows one to listen to texts and to feel the differences and samenesses that were in play with Paul and Luke's audiences. At least so argues ΙΩΑΝΗΣ (yours truly), spelled according to a first century ossuary from Jerusalem.

Chris Servanti
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Joined: September 10th, 2015, 2:30 pm

Re: Question about Living Koine materials

Post by Chris Servanti » November 5th, 2015, 9:52 pm

RandallButh wrote:
Chris Servanti wrote:
Jacob Rhoden wrote:I love the newer materials, but how do you go with the pronunciation differences. I'm not a huge fan of imaginary pronunciation :)
This could be troublesome. I'm going through the same; I use one for personal studies and another for with my tutor. It's kind of like trying to learn spanish by using resources from both Spain and South America, it can be difficult and conflicting.
To be accurate for comparison and discussion, the truly "imaginary pronunciation" is/are the Erasmians (plural). Restored Koine allows one to feel the actual manuscripts when reading papyri from the Dead Sea (Babatha archive, BarKochba, etc.) and Greek inscriptions from around the Land. Imagine looking at a synagogue inscription at Tiveria in the Galilee and seeing ο μιζοτερος (for picture and commentary: http://www.biblicallanguagecenter.com/l ... -tiberias/), or the Bible verse in the tax office of Caesaria that says θελεις δε μη φοβισθαι ... (Rom 13:3). Restored Koine allows one to listen to texts and to feel the differences and samenesses that were in play with Paul and Luke's audiences. At least so argues ΙΩΑΝΗΣ (yours truly), spelled according to a first century ossuary from Jerusalem.
So, how did you come up with the intentional inconsistencies (For instance between οἴκος (almost like εἴκος), σταφυλή (almost like σταφιυλή) and ὑπέρ (normal))? I get the idea of trying to mimic these kinds of abnormalities, but if it's just ambiguously guessing what makes words easier to say [sorry if that's a gross failure of describing the selection process], how could we know for sure? I mean, what would be easier or more natural feeling to us might not have been to people in Paul's time, not to mention that language sometimes fluctuates for erratic reasons (Like 'what are y'all doing' sounding like 'wutchal doin'). It's also note worthy that some languages maintain consistent pronunciations like Spanish (this doesn't mean that the sounds don't change, but the sound in one word - like 'e' - will never change in another word; 'e' is always pronounced 'e'), how can we be sure that wasn't the case in Koine? Sorry if there is something in your process that I'm missing, I would love to hear it if there is :)

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