Greek Grammar Book Order for Self Learning

Resources and methods for teaching and learning New Testament Greek.
Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Greek Grammar Book Order for Self Learning

Post by Stephen Hughes » September 21st, 2017, 9:28 pm

Multimedia learning and teaching resources did exist before the digital age, but now they are standard and ubiquitous. A set of audio files on a CD with a book is an example of the least imaginative type of multimedia presentation. Digitalising the illustratiins typically found in books is also a low-end strategy.

The fact that the "standard" list that this thread is based on contains just books, is telling of where things are at. Illustrated works and multimedia presentation of material are really more engaging.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

RandallButh
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Joined: May 13th, 2011, 4:01 am

Re: Greek Grammar Book Order for Self Learning

Post by RandallButh » September 22nd, 2017, 2:07 am

Jonathan Robie:

I think part of the problem is that there just aren't enough good resources for self-learners that take this approach.
...
LKG was really the first resource along these lines. Thanks for producing it.

I think that the fact that the original list was produced without second thought of linguistically more appropriate methods points to inertia and perhaps misunderstanding in the academy.
Stirling Bartholomew:
The second-language advocates will steer you away from the paralysis of analysis. Their goal is to help you experience the language, rather than dissected it. This is an admirable goal, somewhat difficult to realize without communities of native speakers.


I don't think that this captures or does justice to why organizations like ACTFL have advocated the 90% in-the-language rule or Middlebury runs courses with the "Middlebury pledge" not to use another language.
The purpose of using a language to learn that language is to automatize and internalize the language so that it can be more completely understood. In-the-language is also faster and more memorable for long-term retention. Literature and texts can be analyzed and this should be done from within the whole language. Nothing wrong with analysis, it's just not the mechanism for developing a high-level internalized competence in a language. Close-reading of texts is good. German literature majors analyze texts, but they should do it within the matrix of using German as an internalized language

Reading itself can be comprehensible input and part of the 90%+ "in the language" if it is not translated.

PS: languages can be internalized without native speakers. 2nd language users can be effective teachers. In fact, Hebrew was kept alive for 1700 years as a second language, involving oral communication, creative writing, and books throughout its history. Latin, too, was such a language in Europe a few centuries ago. Newton wrote his treatises in Latin.

Arne Halbakken
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Joined: June 1st, 2011, 11:43 am

Re: Greek Grammar Book Order for Self Learning

Post by Arne Halbakken » September 22nd, 2017, 10:17 am

bo.bulger wrote:
September 20th, 2017, 4:43 pm
Where should I go after completing Morphology? Would it be useful to take up grammars by Robertson or Machen or Funk? Is there another book for advanced reading of the Greek New Testament? Would it be helpful to get a reader's version of NA28 for regular devotional reading?
Robertson is also extremely useful, but hard to read -
[/quote]

Jonathan,

I'm sure you're aware that Robertson has an intermediate grammar besides his big grammar. Thttps://www.amazon.com/Short-Grammar-Greek-New- ... 649064275/

But I would wholeheartedly agree with the suggestions to learn Greek instead of just learning about Greek. Buth or Rico are outstanding suggestions!

Arne Halbakken

C_Stirling_Bartholomew
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Joined: August 30th, 2017, 12:14 pm

Re: Greek Grammar Book Order for Self Learning

Post by C_Stirling_Bartholomew » September 22nd, 2017, 5:48 pm

There's really no preferred order. If you interview 10 people who have been reading ancient Greek for decades and asked them about their path. You'll discover that some of us have a broken almost every rule laid down by the "experts" on Greek pedagogy.

On the subject of books, I'm wondering if the acquisition reference information in Codex form is an anachronism that might be eliminated[1]. With a MacBook and Wi-Fi you can steal almost everything you need to study greek. There are sites everywhere in cyberspace offering resources for biblical language studies without cost. Some of the old standard reference works that have been with us for a century of more are difficult to read. Plowing through them is not a good investment your time.

[1] the wording here is stolen from C.S. Lewis that hideous strength.
C. Stirling Bartholomew
posts before Aug 25, 2017
http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/forum/search.php?author_id=1446&sr=posts

RandallButh
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Re: Greek Grammar Book Order for Self Learning

Post by RandallButh » September 23rd, 2017, 1:26 am

If you interview 10 people who have been reading ancient Greek for decades and asked them about their path. You'll discover that
... few of them could readily describe what they did yesterday, in Greek, or describe what they read yesterday in Greek, in Greek.

Robert Crowe
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Joined: January 8th, 2016, 11:06 am
Location: Northern Ireland

Re: Greek Grammar Book Order for Self Learning

Post by Robert Crowe » September 23rd, 2017, 4:25 am

RandallButh wrote:
September 23rd, 2017, 1:26 am
If you interview 10 people who have been reading ancient Greek for decades and asked them about their path. You'll discover that
... few of them could readily describe what they did yesterday, in Greek, or describe what they read yesterday in Greek, in Greek.
Nor care.
Tús maith leath na hoibre.

Jonathan Robie
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Location: Durham, NC
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Re: Greek Grammar Book Order for Self Learning

Post by Jonathan Robie » September 23rd, 2017, 2:02 pm

Hmmmm.

I'm very interested in asking and answering questions about an ancient text in Greek. I find this is one of the best ways to get a feel for the language, and it moors you to authentic texts and authentic language. In my classes, we do this at a fairly basic level. In Christophe Rico's classes, the more advanced students were doing it at more of a middle school level, which I found very impressive. I have (unfortunately) not been in Randall Buth's classes, but I imagine they would be doing similar things. If you are working alone, you can approach this as a kind of composition - take a sentence, then write some questions about it, then write the answers.

I think this also has a benefit for understanding discourse analysis. For me, at least, a lot of things started to click when I started looking at the word order by asking what question a sentence seems to be answering.

I am less interested in discussing computers, bicycles, and the Internet in ancient Greek. I'm impressed by those who can, this is not something I am putting effort into. I use modern languages to discuss that kind of thing.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Greek Grammar Book Order for Self Learning

Post by Jonathan Robie » September 23rd, 2017, 2:04 pm

Arne Halbakken wrote:
September 22nd, 2017, 10:17 am
I'm sure you're aware that Robertson has an intermediate grammar besides his big grammar. https://www.amazon.com/Short-Grammar-Gr ... 649064275/
I find the short grammar more confusing than the big grammar, because it does not give as many examples or as much context. I have the big grammar, and I use it, but it took me a long time to figure out some of what he was saying. Smyth is so much clearer ...
Arne Halbakken wrote:
September 22nd, 2017, 10:17 am
But I would wholeheartedly agree with the suggestions to learn Greek instead of just learning about Greek. Buth or Rico are outstanding suggestions!
Yup.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

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