Noun Case Endings & Verb Endings

Re: Noun Case Endings & Verb Endings

Postby MAubrey » September 4th, 2012, 6:43 pm

RandallButh wrote:In these discussions on teaching/learning the possibility of using a reference grammar in the language of interest may provide a different perspective on what constitutes 'learning'. (Of course, not much is available in Greek, and nothing in ancient Greek that interfaces with modern linguistics.)

I think, Randall, that you're probably the only person in the world even remotely qualified to write such a work. There are a handful of people who know linguistics as it relates to Ancient Greek and there are even few people who are even close to being fluent in Ancient Greek. I would anticipate that in a Venn Diagram of those two groups, you may very well be the only person in the middle.
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Re: Noun Case Endings & Verb Endings

Postby Stephen Carlson » September 5th, 2012, 4:34 am

RandallButh wrote:Imagine doing that in English where one first learns English (whether a first or second language) and then searches in a reference grammar, written in English, for developing an analytical grasp of the language. In these discussions on teaching/learning the possibility of using a reference grammar in the language of interest may provide a different perspective on what constitutes 'learning'. (Of course, not much is available in Greek, and nothing in ancient Greek that interfaces with modern linguistics.)


I happen to own an excellent reference grammar for English (The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language). I cannot imagine that a first- (or second- or even a fourth-) year English student could learn to listen, speak, read, and write the language. In fact, without some college, the grammar is probably inaccessible even to native English speakers.
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Re: Noun Case Endings & Verb Endings

Postby ed krentz » September 6th, 2012, 1:37 pm

The largest grammar of English is by the Dane, Otto Jespersen, in 7. vols. Grammars are often written fpr and by non-native speakers. Dionysios Thrax wrote his form Romans.
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Re: Noun Case Endings & Verb Endings

Postby MAubrey » September 6th, 2012, 10:07 pm

ed krentz wrote:The largest grammar of English is by the Dane, Otto Jespersen, in 7. vols. Grammars are often written fpr and by non-native speakers. Dionysios Thrax wrote his form Romans.

Jespersen's grammar wasn't written for non-native speakers. It was written for the linguistic community as a whole.

As for Thrax, his audience was Alexandrian. We only have a handful of lines that can be confidently attributed to him. The rest of "his" grammar is from a few hundred years after he lived. It's audience is rather highly disputed.
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Re: Noun Case Endings & Verb Endings

Postby Stephen Carlson » September 13th, 2012, 2:39 am

MAubrey wrote:As for Thrax, his audience was Alexandrian. We only have a handful of lines that can be confidently attributed to him. The rest of "his" grammar is from a few hundred years after he lived. It's audience is rather highly disputed.


What's the audience of the expanded grammar? Is it Roman?
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Re: Noun Case Endings & Verb Endings

Postby MAubrey » September 14th, 2012, 10:14 pm

Stephen Carlson wrote:What's the audience of the expanded grammar? Is it Roman?

It depends on what you read. Different books say different things, though most of the ones I've read have been returned to the university library. I can't remember who says what. I have two books that deal with the history.

Francis Dinneen' General linguistics, who summarizes most of the history of linguistics states that what we call Thrax's grammar is the culmination of the work of many scholars whose purpose was to summarize grammatical issues relevant for the interpretation Homeric and Classical texts. There are a few texts I've read that hold that view. There are also views about the text having pedagogical value following the Alexandrian dispersion of the Greek language throughout the region...though I can't cite anything for that off the top of my head.

Here are a some of the books I've read, if you want to do some investigations of your own...

Blank, David. “The Organization of Grammar in Ancient Greek.” Pages 400-417 in History of the Language Sciences. Vol 1. Berlin: Mouton de Gruyter, 2000.

Di Benedetto, Vincenzo. “Dionysius Thrax and the Tékhnē Grammatikḗ.” Pages 394-400 in History of the Language Sciences. Vol 1. Berlin: Mouton de Gruyter, 2000.

Matthews, P. H. “Greek and Latin Linguistics.” Pages 2-133 in History of Linguistics: Classical and Medieval Linguistics. Ed. Guilio Lepschy. English Ed. 4 vols. New York: Longman, 1994.

Harris, Roy and Talbot Taylor, Landmarks in Linguistic Thought: The Western Tradition from Socrates to Saussure. London: Routledge, 1997.

Robins, R. H. A Short History of Linguistics. 3rd ed. London: Longman, 1997.

______. The Byzantine Grammarians: Their Place in History. Berlin: Mouton de Gruypter, 1993.

Swiggers, Peter and Alfons Wouters. “Content and Context in (Translating) Ancient Grammar.” Pages 123-61 in Ancient Grammar: Content and Context. Leuven: Peeters, 1996.
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