Help me teach this class

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Help me teach this class

Post by Jonathan Robie » August 21st, 2015, 8:06 am

Here's a problem I see: in many cases, working through a passage with sufficient context requires on the order of 15-16 verses. Can that be done comfortably in 30 minutes using these kinds of techniques with a group that includes real beginners? I'm currently moving much slower than that, and it affects what we can discuss in the last 15 minutes.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Paul-Nitz
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Re: Help me teach this class

Post by Paul-Nitz » August 23rd, 2015, 3:17 pm

The short answer (in my opinion) is no. I can't see being able to teach a 10-15 verse passage of Greek communicatively. But I wouldn't be discouraged by that. If the main objective of the class is application and spiritual growth, then it would be far more efficient to teach in English with some references to Greek. But I assume your students have a longer term goal of understanding the NT better via Greek. If that is the main objective, then stick on the communicative track. It's my belief that it produces genuine acquisition, it promotes a positive/pleasurable view of learning this very difficult language, and it sets up students to progress in their learning as autodidacts. Still, it's a shame to end a Sunday class without some spiritual lesson.

I'll make a suggestion in hopes that it spurs you on to a better idea. I would save a discussion of the application of the 10-15 verse passage at hand until the day when I would finish studying the entire passage. The delay may even increase anticipation in a healthy way. In the interim lessons, during the application segment, I would focus on comparison, in contrast to application. Facilitating comparative thought is a much underutilized pedagogical tool.
  • What comes to mind from elsewhere in the Bible that reminds you of this verse?
    Look at examples (with teacher's help) of where this same Greek word/phrase was used.
    Compare the author's expression to an alternate way of saying the same basic thought.
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Paul D. Nitz - Lilongwe Malawi

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Help me teach this class

Post by Jonathan Robie » August 27th, 2015, 2:58 pm

What is the best word to use for a "cast of characters"?
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

cwconrad
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Re: Help me teach this class

Post by cwconrad » August 27th, 2015, 3:42 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:What is the best word to use for a "cast of characters"?
The usual phrase is τὰ τοῦ δράματος πρόσωπα; the usual Latinization is dramatis personae.
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οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Help me teach this class

Post by Jonathan Robie » August 27th, 2015, 5:08 pm

I had no idea just how true this post is for me working through Luke. These verbs are so common, they keep coming up, and they are easy to teach ...
RandallButh wrote:Myself, I would start with the verbs that a student really needs to have INSIDE them,

like ἔδωκα ἔδωκεν ~ δίδωσιν
and ἔθηκα ἔθηκεν ~ τίθησιν
plus ῆλθον ῆλθεν ~ ἔρχεται
and εῑπον/εῑπα εῖπεν ~ λέγει

and don't forget ἔστηκα ἔστηκεν "(I am) standing"
κεῖμαι κεῖται
κάθημαι κάθηται

That's what little kids internalized as their core experience, along with lots of forms like δός, θές, ἐλθέ, στῆθι/ἀνάστηθι, κεῖσο, κάθισον, and probably especially . . . παῦσαι ποιῶν αὐτό ! :x ! ! :D .
In other words hit 70 FUNKY verbs really hard all the time, from the beginning.
They are more important than λῦσαι λύειν. Having the funky verbs inside provides a core that can build to fluency better than rules about λῦσαι λύειν. (yes, they get to have 's' aorist, 'k' perfect, and 's' future, too, almost as 'gimme's.)

Yeah, it's a different philosophy of language learning, but ἀπὸ τῶν καρπῶν αὐτῶν ἐπιγνώσεσθε αὐτούς.
And when they get really κεκμηκότες rules won't help as much as a gloss.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Help me teach this class

Post by Jonathan Robie » August 28th, 2015, 4:49 pm

As I'm working out my language goals for this fall, I also decided to check out tense by frequency:

Code: Select all

aorist  ( 11596 )
present  ( 11552 )
imperfect  ( 1679 )
future  ( 1624 )
perfect  ( 1573 )
pluperfect  ( 88 )
So focus on aorist and present, imperfect and future are straightforward if you know the present, don't sweat perfect and pluperfect for now. In my class, "don't sweat" means I'll explain how the verb functions, but won't worry about teaching these forms until later.

Here's how I generated that:

Code: Select all

for $verb in //w[@class='verb']
group by $tense := $verb/@tense
order by count($verb) descending
return 
  <group>
    <name>{ $tense, ' (', count($verb), ')' }</name>
   </group>
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Stephen Carlson
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Re: Help me teach this class

Post by Stephen Carlson » August 28th, 2015, 8:47 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:So focus on aorist and present, imperfect and future are straightforward if you know the present, don't sweat perfect and pluperfect for now. In my class, "don't sweat" means I'll explain how the verb functions, but won't worry about teaching these forms until later.
You can probably take care of a huge chunk of the perfect form by memorizing οἶδα, which is so idiosyncratic in morphology and semantics that it should be memorized separately anyway.
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Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Help me teach this class

Post by Jonathan Robie » August 29th, 2015, 11:35 am

Stephen Carlson wrote:
Jonathan Robie wrote:So focus on aorist and present, imperfect and future are straightforward if you know the present, don't sweat perfect and pluperfect for now. In my class, "don't sweat" means I'll explain how the verb functions, but won't worry about teaching these forms until later.
You can probably take care of a huge chunk of the perfect form by memorizing οἶδα, which is so idiosyncratic in morphology and semantics that it should be memorized separately anyway.
Good point. Adding to my curriculum plans for the first time this verb crops up ...
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Help me teach this class

Post by Jonathan Robie » August 29th, 2015, 11:36 am

Any thoughts on how to teach ἐκπειράζω with TPR actions?
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Thomas Dolhanty
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Re: Help me teach this class

Post by Thomas Dolhanty » August 29th, 2015, 1:17 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:Any thoughts on how to teach ἐκπειράζω with TPR actions?
One thing is certain, all the children of Adam will grasp this concept pretty easily! ;->

One possibility would be to provide a list of simple phrases from which each class member could choose one.
  • οὐ θέλω φαγεῖν
  • οὐ θέλω λαλῆσαι
  • οὐ θέλω ἐξελθεῖν
Then, when they say their phrase, you could present the 'no eater' with food, the 'no talker' with insistent chatter, the 'no goer' with many beckonings to come, etc.
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γράφω μαθεῖν

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