Public domain / freely available lexicons?

Public domain / freely available lexicons?

Postby Jonathan Robie » June 1st, 2011, 3:54 pm

What public domain / freely available lexicons are good enough to be worth using, especially in software systems that can't use resources that are not freely available?

LSJ, obviously. And that's already available in XML.

I've heard of efforts to convert Souter's pocket lexicon and Abbott-Smith. Are these the best ones to consider, or are there others?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Re: Public domain / freely available lexicons?

Postby Mark Goodacre » June 2nd, 2011, 10:15 am

Hi Jonathan,

Abbott-Smith is already available at archive.org and in several nicely readable and downloadable formats. I list this alongside Bullinger, Moulton & Milligan and Thayer, all also on archive.org, over on the NT Gateway lexica page:

http://www.ntgateway.com/greek-ntgateway/lexica/

Cheers
Mark
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Re: Public domain / freely available lexicons?

Postby Alex Hopkins » February 23rd, 2012, 9:44 am

In May last year, Jonathan wrote,

What public domain / freely available lexicons are good enough to be worth using, especially in software systems that can't use resources that are not freely available?

LSJ, obviously. And that's already available in XML.


I'm interested to know whether the XML file itself is in the public domain (and, if so, where can it be obtained)? My understanding is that, in general, while a book may reach such an age that it is no longer protected by copyright, an electronic version made of the book may have a separate identity in so far as copyright is concerned. Now, a) I'm no lawyer, so that my understanding may be quite wrong, and b) I'm in any case interested only in the specific case of the LSJ. Is there only a single implementation of the XML LSJ, or different variants, and are any of these freely available?

I'd be grateful for any help on these questions.

Alex Hopkins
Melbourne, Australia
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Re: Public domain / freely available lexicons?

Postby Jonathan Robie » February 24th, 2012, 9:00 am

Alex Hopkins wrote:In May last year, Jonathan wrote,

What public domain / freely available lexicons are good enough to be worth using, especially in software systems that can't use resources that are not freely available?

LSJ, obviously. And that's already available in XML.


I'm interested to know whether the XML file itself is in the public domain (and, if so, where can it be obtained)? My understanding is that, in general, while a book may reach such an age that it is no longer protected by copyright, an electronic version made of the book may have a separate identity in so far as copyright is concerned. Now, a) I'm no lawyer, so that my understanding may be quite wrong, and b) I'm in any case interested only in the specific case of the LSJ. Is there only a single implementation of the XML LSJ, or different variants, and are any of these freely available?


You can get the text here:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/opensource/download

It has a Creative Commons ShareAlike 3.0 License. I downloaded the "Greek texts", and found only the Middle Liddel, but the Great Scott may well be in there somewhere.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Re: Public domain / freely available lexicons?

Postby Devenios Doulenios » February 24th, 2012, 9:45 pm

LSJ is also available offline in the free Diogenes software. I use mine all the time in Mac OS X. It is available for Windows (and Linux) also. Get it at http://www.dur.ac.uk/p.j.heslin/Software/Diogenes/

Devenios Doulenios
Δεβένιος Δουλένιος
"τὴν ζωὴν καὶ τὸν θάνατον δέδωκα πρὸ προσώπου ὑμῶν τὴν εὐλογίαν καὶ τὴν κατάραν ἔκλεξαι τὴν ζωήν ἵνα ζῇς σὺ καὶ τὸ σπέρμα σου"-Dt. 30:19

"Ὁδοὶ δύο εἰσί, μία τῆς ζωῆς καὶ μία τοῦ θανάτου."--Διδαχή Α, α'
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Re: Public domain / freely available lexicons?

Postby Alex Hopkins » February 25th, 2012, 4:49 am

I appreciate the help given by both Jonathan and Devenios.

Jonathan, Your letting me know of the download page from Perseus will be very helpful. In the past, I've downloaded some isolated texts in XML format but not known of the download page, which makes things considerably easier. The ML is there, but I couldn't find the full LSJ.

Devenios, Thanks for the pointer to Diogenes, which I was unaware of. From what I can see, having had only a quick look, it is useful for a person who has purchased the TLG texts on CD.

If I understand aright what is available through Perseus and through Diogenes, neither make the full LSJ freely available.

Just to explain my interest a little further. I've had a hard copy of the full LSJ for a long time, since a friend studying first year Greek with me at Monash Uni sold me his for a dollar, correctly guessing that I'd take my Greek a bit further than he was likely to. That was more than 35 years ago. I've had for some years an electronic version through BibleWorks; from memory, it cost something over $100. So I was wondering if today's students have access to a free version of the full LSJ (other than the online options). My understanding remains that at this stage it is not available freely, but I'd be glad to be corrected.

Alex Hopkins
Melbourne, Australia
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Re: Public domain / freely available lexicons?

Postby Devenios Doulenios » February 26th, 2012, 7:12 pm

Hi Alex,

I haven't compared the results of LSJ searches in Diogenes to Perseus or to a hard copy of LSJ, but comparing it to the hard copy of the Middle Liddell I have, it is more detailed than the Middle. Diogenes lists the ancient author references for its usage categories, for example. I have used a hard copy of the full LSJ before, some 30 years ago when I was in preaching school, but never bought one. I'll have to compare the Diogenes results to Perseus when I can.

I don't have the finances to buy much software, so freeware like Diogenes is always welcome.

Even if you don't have access to the full TLG (I don't), you can still do dictionary searches with Diogenes.Diogenes also gives some parsing/declension info when you click on Greek words.

Devenios
"τὴν ζωὴν καὶ τὸν θάνατον δέδωκα πρὸ προσώπου ὑμῶν τὴν εὐλογίαν καὶ τὴν κατάραν ἔκλεξαι τὴν ζωήν ἵνα ζῇς σὺ καὶ τὸ σπέρμα σου"-Dt. 30:19

"Ὁδοὶ δύο εἰσί, μία τῆς ζωῆς καὶ μία τοῦ θανάτου."--Διδαχή Α, α'
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Re: Public domain / freely available lexicons?

Postby Ken M. Penner » February 26th, 2012, 10:36 pm

Alex Hopkins wrote:I'm interested to know whether the XML file itself is in the public domain (and, if so, where can it be obtained)? My understanding is that, in general, while a book may reach such an age that it is no longer protected by copyright, an electronic version made of the book may have a separate identity in so far as copyright is concerned. Now, a) I'm no lawyer, so that my understanding may be quite wrong, and b) I'm in any case interested only in the specific case of the LSJ. Is there only a single implementation of the XML LSJ, or different variants, and are any of these freely available?

I googled lsj xml and found one named lsj-PerseusSept2009.xml
Ken M. Penner
St. Francis Xavier University
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Re: Public domain / freely available lexicons?

Postby Alex Hopkins » February 27th, 2012, 8:31 am

Thanks to Devenios and to Ken for their responses - both are helpful to me.

Thanks Devenios, I'll have another look at Diogenes; I was able to install the software easily enough but unsure about where to find the data files and how and where to install them on a PC. I'll have another crack at it.

Thanks Ken, for the link to the Perseus XML file to LSJ. The questions which now arise are, Is it legal to download the file? and, To what uses may it be put? For example, a piece of software could be written that allowed students who have downloaded the file to search for Greek words or, say, to search through the entries to find a particular English word that might be of interest. If the software were made available freely, would the use of the XML file be within acceptable copyright usage?

If the Diogenes software does this, then there's no point reinventing the wheel.

Thanks again to you both,

Alex Hopkins
Melbourne, Australia
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