notes on the Greek tems in a NT

Leonard Isaksson
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notes on the Greek tems in a NT

Post by Leonard Isaksson » December 24th, 2014, 11:13 pm

The book I am referring to here is a translation of the New Testament(the source, she calls it. What I am inquiring about is not the translation, but the fact that Ann Nyland claims to have included many fine notes in her translation, lexicographical notes. She says she has done all of this linguistic study of the papyri. It sounds like she is trying to say that she has done what Deissmann and Moulton and Robertson did, but that she included papyrus finds in the 1970s. No one has done such a job as she has. Danker is a piker, it seems, w hile he did some good work. Such claims as t his irritate me a great deal. I don't feel like contributing any money to such a project, if it is a hoodwink.

What I am wondering about, is has anyone looked at these lexicographical notes that she has made on the meanings of many Greek words?

She seems to have published wiccan sorts of things.

Stephen Carlson
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Re: notes on the Greek tems in a NT

Post by Stephen Carlson » December 24th, 2014, 11:26 pm

Have they been published? Do you have the bibliographical information?
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia

Stirling Bartholomew
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Re: notes on the Greek tems in a NT

Post by Stirling Bartholomew » December 24th, 2014, 11:53 pm

Stephen Carlson wrote:Have they been published? Do you have the bibliographical information?
Is this it? http://www.hollywoodjesus.com/spiritual ... tament.pdf
C. Stirling Bartholomew

Stephen Carlson
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Re: notes on the Greek tems in a NT

Post by Stephen Carlson » December 25th, 2014, 7:09 am

Stirling Bartholomew wrote:
Stephen Carlson wrote:Have they been published? Do you have the bibliographical information?
Is this it? http://www.hollywoodjesus.com/spiritual ... tament.pdf
That seems to be Nyland's translation, but without the notes.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia

cwconrad
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Re: notes on the Greek tems in a NT

Post by cwconrad » December 25th, 2014, 7:33 am

Stephen Carlson wrote:
Stirling Bartholomew wrote:
Stephen Carlson wrote:Have they been published? Do you have the bibliographical information?
Is this it? http://www.hollywoodjesus.com/spiritual ... tament.pdf
That seems to be Nyland's translation, but without the notes.
At the bottom of page 4 in the introduction of that version we read:
Extensive notes on the meanings of the Greek words can be found in The Source New Testament: with Extensive Notes on Word Meaning
Amazon's listing for that book:
http://www.amazon.com/Source-Testament- ... Ann+Nyland
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

Stephen Hughes
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Re: notes on the Greek tems in a NT

Post by Stephen Hughes » December 26th, 2014, 6:16 am

Leonard Isaksson wrote:she calls it. ... Ann Nyland claims ... Such claims as t his irritate me a great deal. I don't feel like contributing any money to such a project, if it is a hoodwink.
I would like to make an appeal to decorum and to offer a little rehabilitation for her name after what has been implied almost ad hominem in the tone here.

Ann Nyland was an academic at the University of New England, New South Wales, and was a B-Greek board participant in the period before I joined the forum, as this search will show.

Here is a quote from the achieves to which I have added some small notes of explanation:
Ann Nyland in the achieves from 27th of May, 2004 wrote:Hi Frances,

I too live in Armidale, and I used to teach Greek at UNE. (I myself don't like the [JACT] Reading Greek course, but everyone else seems to sing its praises!)

You're doing Greek 100-2 at UNE?

People on this list sometimes use different terminology. Go up to Dixon [the libarary at UNE], borrow a copy of Goodwin's Grammar, and look in the index for "possessive pronouns". If that doesn't help, I am sure if you go to Iain Spence's office [who is both an adjunct professor at UNE with a research interest in ancient warfare and Major General in the Royal Australian Army Reserves (part-time army service)] he would be happy to explain it (assuming he's not on leave...) [i.e. deployed and on active service] (and tell him I said "Hi!")

Regards,
Ann Nyland
Ignoring the personal references, the type of advice given in this post of hers at least, would be what most experience readers, and especially those who are or had been teachers in the grammar-translation stream would have given to a beginning student.

Her translation - The Source New Testament - seems to have received mostly positive reviews online. As an academic, it would have been suicide for her to make claims about the meaning of Greek words beyond what others would reasonable be able to check.
Leonard Isaksson wrote:She seems to have published wiccan sorts of things.
A full list of her available publications can be found on Amazon in her biography page. Because of my current bent on Xenophon, I'm interested in her work on Xenophon's treatise on horsemanship.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Leonard Isaksson
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Re: notes on the Greek tems in a NT

Post by Leonard Isaksson » December 26th, 2014, 2:11 pm

I just got back to where I can be online. Let me render an apology, if my query is considered to be an attack. I reckon I do have a certain amount of tone, and so at the season of Christmas, let me not tromp upon someone going about doing what they love.

I did read on amazon, and on her own site as well as others.

The advertisement for the book, if it was written by Ann Nyland, does make a pretty strong statement on having better lexicographical notes than most any other work, Danker's lexicon, and Deissmann and Moulton and Robertson are clearly mentioned by name as having done some good work, but that this work goes farther than theirs. That was the way it struck me. I do not have a quote from her site to refer to, so I suppose the way I read it can be criticised on this. Having known Frederick Danker as well as using his work, it just seemed like too much to say the notes went farther than his lexicographical work, so I did react.

The reason I made a query here was to get someone else's views, who are able to judge or report on the book. I didn't see a lot of peer review. It was not to clomp upon her, although I reckon I did clomp in the way I put things. I suppose the word wiccan added to that. I have had friends who were witches, and while we talked and debated, we did not have animosity, rather friendship.

Thank you for the reference and comment.

It is hard enough to come by dollars without spending on something you do not know about.

Eeli Kaikkonen
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Re: notes on the Greek tems in a NT

Post by Eeli Kaikkonen » December 27th, 2014, 5:26 am

I once read some comments by A. Nyland on some subject and got alerted by my religious sensibilities. But who is wrong and who is right? That's what I'd like to know. It's really difficult to believe someone who is strongly dedicated to some worldview completely different from mine. Being wiccan and hard feminist really doesn't gather respect in my book, but it doesn't automatically mean she's wrong on lexicography. But it also doesn't automatically mean I'm wrong. What I have read from some places (second hand), she says that Christians or even non-Christians just have misinterpreted many words for hundreds (or two thousand) years. That explicitly or implicitly includes Danker, Louw/Nida etc. This misinterpretation touches even our most cherished words like "believe", let alone hot issues like homosexuality related words.

On the other hand I get suspicious when someone says all others have been wrong for centuries, especially when his/her opinions lean towards some strong worldview. On the other, we all agree that others really were wrong before Deissmann and Moulton/Milligan. Why not now before Nyland? That's why I'm very, very interested in hearing more authoritative, academically based opinions about her work. Not just some Amazon reviews!

Jonathan Robie
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Re: notes on the Greek tems in a NT

Post by Jonathan Robie » December 27th, 2014, 9:32 am

Leonard Isaksson wrote:The reason I made a query here was to get someone else's views, who are able to judge or report on the book.
We don't discuss translations on B-Greek. Is there anything in scope to discuss here?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

cwconrad
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Re: notes on the Greek tems in a NT

Post by cwconrad » December 27th, 2014, 10:26 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:
Leonard Isaksson wrote:The reason I made a query here was to get someone else's views, who are able to judge or report on the book.
We don't discuss translations on B-Greek. Is there anything in scope to discuss here?
I thought Leonard said he wasn't interested in the translation but in the value or usefulness of Ann Nyland's lexicography. I suspect, however, that any judgments on that would already have appeared by now.
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

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