Re: Funk BIGHG
Posted: July 16th, 2011, 8:43 am
I'm leery of this suggestion for two reasons. First and foremost, the copy right is held by Bob Funk's widow, Char Matejowski; she has given us permission to post our digitized copy at our web-site, butI don't think we have a right to alter or add substantively to the text of the edition that we have scanned. But in addition to that, if by "glosses" you mean English versions of the texts cited, that seems to me to foster the pedagogical notion that reading Greek is essentially formulation of an equivalent in a target language, and so to transform BIGHG into another of the many "analysis/translation" primers. Furthermore, I would note that the versions of constructions in Smyths grammar (which is a reference grammar, not a textbook -- BIGHG is essentially a textbook) are very,very carefully phrased: they are accurate English representations of the meaning of the Greek, but they are not literal translations. If we had a right to add such glosses to our digitized BIGHG, I think such glosses would have to be added very carefully -- but I really don't think we have the right to add them.Louis L Sorenson wrote:I have several questions and suggestions regarding Funk's grammar.
1) I think it would be good to add glosses for the word lists and other Greek texts that do not have glosses. Smyth's "A Greek Grammar" includes glosses for everything. In a web format (vs. print) much more is able to be done without having the space restraints and cost of print volumes. Perhaps we could create a Funk-2 version of his grammar, including glosses to the Greek?.
As indicated above, Funk's vision extended far beyond what was ever achieved in the last printed edition of BIGHG. I cannot possibly express my sorrow at the breakdown of the endeavor to compile a thorough new Hellenistic Greek Grammar to supplant BDF and perhaps serve as a reference grammar for Hellenistic Greek that we now find only in Smyth. But such a project lies, I fear, far beyond the combined resources of time, energy, and funds that devoted members of the B-Greek Forum could conceivably offer. On the other hand, revision, expansion, and improvement of the last printed edition of BIGHG is a project that B-Greekers might conceivably undertake. I think, however, that (a) we could do absolutely nothing along these lines without the clear consent of the copyright holder and should not even think of trying to do so, and (b) carrying out such a project would require not only the commitment of a sufficient number of volunteers to do the work, but it would also require a truly sound and competent committee of at least three persons to assure that any glosses and all expanded grammatical explanations are as clear and accurate as they can be. What we're talking about may not be, as Thucycides put it, a "classic" (κτῆμα ἐς ἀεί) but it would be something more than just "a prize essay for a one-time reading" (ἀγώνισμα ἐς τὸ παραχρῆμα ἀκούειν).Louis L Sorenson wrote:I2) Funk in his introduction strongly suggests that his grammar is set up to be the basis for a more complete grammar of Koine Greek. Funk had a bigger vision of his "Hellenistic Grammar"
He intended his content to be augmented, and adapted his numbering system accordingly....It had been my original intention to draw far more on texts outside the New Testament and Apostolic Fathers than has in fact been the case. If it proves possible to reduce a significant number of Greek sentences to a code that can be manipulated by a computer, it will be easily possible to work with a much larger body of data. In that case, the promise of the title (hellenistic Greek) will come to fulfillment; as it stands, it is more promise than achievement.There is, of course, a great risk in attempting a new organization of Greek grammar, based on a fresh collection of data. Those who are gracious enough to share the risk will hopefully make suggestions for improvement, note errors of all proportions, and contribute materially to the further editions which will hopefully follow.He also had a vision of his grammar going further....The numbering system devised for this Grammar requires comment. It is basically a three digit system (§§001-999) with the possibility of infinite expansion: each major section has been assigned unused numbers, and indefinite subdivision is possible. In addition to the convenience in numbering the first edition, the system will permit subsequent editions to retain the same span of numbers for the same sections (e.g. Nominal Word Clusters will always be treated in §§680-779). Sections may be added or deleted without having to renumber the entire Grammar.All that is certainly true, but I think that the facts are more complicated. Funk had in mind something more than a "beginning and intermediate" textbook; he had hoped for a wholly-new Grammar of Hellenistic Greek that would improve upon and supplant BDF, since BDF is a relatively brief reference grammar compiled originally for users who were already fully familiar with classial Attic Greek. Funk had a committee working that was headed by Daryl Schmidt -- Micheal Palmer of our forum was one member of that group; it was, I think, a project of Funk's Westar Institute and would presumably have been published by Westar's Polebridge Press. Unfortunately the committee's work stalled and both Bob Funk and Daryl Schmidt are deceased. How far it ever got, I really don't know. It is an exceedingly lamentable blow to the scholarly study of not only the GNT and Christian literature but of Hellenistic literature as a literary corpus extending far beyond the confines of extant Biblical, Jewish, and Christian texts. Such an undertaking involves an immense expenditure of time and funds. The failure of that enterprise is tragic -- at least from the perspective of our forum members and from that of many others as well..In my own defense, I can only say that I finally decided it the better part of wisdom to publish the fruit of ten years of labor rather than wait upon additional years of work.
It had been my original intention to draw far more on texts outside the New Testament and Apostolic Fathers than has in fact been the case
Those who are gracious enough to share the risk will hopefully make suggestions for improvement, note errors of all proportions, and contribute materially to the further editions which will hopefully follow.
Louis L Sorenson wrote:I3) Funk also saw the use/need for an abridged Student's version of his grammar
I wonder if the B-Greek community could provide such a δῶρον?Many promising suggestions have been made for a revised edition. While it was not possible to undertake a revision at this time, eventually a thoroughly revised and augmented edition will be issued, together with an abbreviated student edition. Meanwhile, the patrons of this grammar are invited to share further in its improvement.