Discussing or reading Coptic?

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Stephen Hughes
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Discussing or reading Coptic?

Post by Stephen Hughes » May 21st, 2016, 4:52 am

I would like to read and disuss Coptic texts and language. Is anyone else, who is interested in or able to read and discuss Coptic, interested in asking Jonathan to allocate a (hidden) sub-forum to do that?

Alternatively, could anyone suggest a presently active forum elsewhere, where the Coptic texts are read from a (Biblical) humanistic point of view, both at the trying to master and having mastered the language levels?
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Discussing or reading Coptic?

Post by Jonathan Robie » May 23rd, 2016, 12:41 pm

This looks like the place for discussing Coptic:

http://kame.danacbe.com/
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Discussing or reading Coptic?

Post by Stephen Hughes » May 23rd, 2016, 2:04 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:This looks like the place for discussing Coptic:

http://kame.danacbe.com/
I saw that. There is a movement within the Coptic community to restore the older pronunciation of Coptic. The aim of that website is to promote the Old Bohairic pronunciation rather than the Greco-Bohairic one in current liturgical use.

Marcion looks like a useful tool, but I can't find a forum to discuss the language of the texts or even the content from a humanistic (rather than esoteric) point of view.

Topics like, "What are the distictive features of the Lycopolitan or Sub-Achmimic dialect?" or "Are construction with ἵνα + the aorist subjunctive rendered into Coptic in the same or different way than ἵνα + present subjunctive." "Are the categorisations we make in Greek grammar rendered into different constructions in the Coptic versions" would sound so much more interesting than, "How should we change our understanding of Christianity because a Coptic Gnostic text might have mentioned that Jesus had a wife."

I can't find a forum where things like what I'm interested in are being discussed.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Discussing or reading Coptic?

Post by Stephen Hughes » May 24th, 2016, 1:27 pm

In a wider discussion of the Greek grammar, the way that bilingual translators rendered the text into other languages (including Coptic, which I happen to know) is an important witness into how the Greek was understood.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Discussing or reading Coptic?

Post by Jonathan Robie » May 24th, 2016, 5:14 pm

Until we have two people actively discussing Coptic in a thread, I don't think we need any policy decisions. Obviously, any discussion of Coptic on B-Greek should be geared toward people who know Greek, without requiring knowledge of Coptic.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Stirling Bartholomew
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Re: Discussing or reading Coptic?

Post by Stirling Bartholomew » May 24th, 2016, 7:42 pm

I had no intention of discussing Coptic here. The site linked above http://kame.danacbe.com/ appears to be dormant. Also it appears to be for discussion of a different dialect. Bently Layton's 20 Lessons[1] and the Coptic SCRIPTORIUM http://copticscriptorium.org/ will keep me busy for a while.

A few years ago I did a brief study of Syriac while reading Peter J. Williams Early Syriac Translation Technique & the Textual Criticism of the Greek Gospels. The objective of such a study is to grasp the architecture of the syntax, not to become a reader of the language. Layton's 20 Lessons show evidence of the author's familiarity with linguistics from the last 30 years of the 20th century. He isn't promoting any particular framework, but he assumes knowledge of several frameworks, nothing from Chomsky however, not that I can detect.

[1] PDF available various places online.
C. Stirling Bartholomew

Stephen Hughes
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Re: Discussing or reading Coptic?

Post by Stephen Hughes » May 25th, 2016, 1:27 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:Until we have two people actively discussing Coptic in a thread, I don't think we need any policy decisions. Obviously, any discussion of Coptic on B-Greek should be geared toward people who know Greek, without requiring knowledge of Coptic.
Stirling Bartholomew wrote:I had no intention of discussing Coptic here.
Well, there is no point talking to myself about Coptic here either. I already talk to myself enough here about Greek.

On a shrinking forum like this, there are roughly three options when making choices about who to speak with:
  • The most obvious is to only talk about topics that engage others in conversation,
  • the next is to continue in soliloquy with familiar themes now that various other actors exited stage left and right, and
  • the other option is monologue about something new.
The discussion of Coptic could have some value for understanding Greek grammar, and vocabulary, as well as its well-recognised contribution to textual criticism, but without a body of participants to set the tone, and without adequate moderation - either directly and personally from an expert, or impersonally through precedent and habituation of previous discussions, a focused and extended discussion of Coptic (or anything else) is not going to work.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Discussing or reading Coptic?

Post by Jonathan Robie » May 25th, 2016, 10:20 am

Personally, I'd focus on things that at least someone else shows interest in discussing, monologues are less helpful. And perhaps we all need to get better at asking others about the things they are interested in, in a welcoming way.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Stephen Hughes
Posts: 3332
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Discussing or reading Coptic?

Post by Stephen Hughes » May 25th, 2016, 1:20 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:Personally, I'd focus on things that at least someone else shows interest in discussing, monologues are less helpful. And perhaps we all need to get better at asking others about the things they are interested in, in a welcoming way.
The fact that they get read beyond the first post in the thread makes monologues a kind of interaction. There is a passive interest rather than active interest, perhaps we could say. Even in a dialogue the majority of participamts are onlookers.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Jonathan Robie
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Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
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Re: Discussing or reading Coptic?

Post by Jonathan Robie » May 25th, 2016, 1:59 pm

Stephen Hughes wrote:
Jonathan Robie wrote:Personally, I'd focus on things that at least someone else shows interest in discussing, monologues are less helpful. And perhaps we all need to get better at asking others about the things they are interested in, in a welcoming way.
The fact that they get read beyond the first post in the thread makes monologues a kind of interaction. There is a passive interest rather than active interest, perhaps we could say. Even in a dialogue the majority of participamts are onlookers.
I disagree. People read quickly to see if they are interested in a post, the counter registers this. If they are interested enough to respond, that tells you something. The threads where several people participate are usually the ones that the most people are interested in.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

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