Requirements for Baptism

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Shirley Rollinson
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Requirements for Baptism

Post by Shirley Rollinson » July 20th, 2018, 10:56 pm

I'm teaching a course on Church History next semester, and some of the Early Church documents are part of it. I remember reading a Greek text some time ago which discussed Baptism, and the requirements for candidates, and which said that it was OK to baptise a prostitute because she was a slave-girl and had no say in what was done with her body. I can't locate that source now - can anyone help with the source please.
Thank you
Shirley Rollinson
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Wes Wood
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Re: Requirements for Baptism

Post by Wes Wood » July 21st, 2018, 1:55 am

I believe I have seen something similar to that in Ablution, Initiation, and Baptism: Late Antiquity, Early Judaism, and Early Christianity. I hope this helps.
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Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ

timothy_p_mcmahon
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Re: Requirements for Baptism

Post by timothy_p_mcmahon » July 21st, 2018, 2:06 am

If you find it, Shirley, please let us know.
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: Requirements for Baptism

Post by Jonathan Robie » July 21st, 2018, 12:50 pm

I think you may be looking for Chapter 16 of the Apostolic Tradition. Does anyone have the Greek handy?
A concubine, who is a slave and has reared her children and has been faithful to her master alone, may become a hearer; but if she has failed in these matters she must be rejected. If a man has a concubine, he must desist and marry legally; if he is unwilling, he must be rejected.
The rationale would probably be that a slave who is a concubine has no choice. I remember being a little surprised when I first read Chapter 21, but Chapter 16 is probably what you are looking for.

You may be able to find other relevant references in this paper:

https://genius.com/Jennifer-a-glancy-sl ... -annotated
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Shirley Rollinson
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Re: Requirements for Baptism

Post by Shirley Rollinson » July 21st, 2018, 8:53 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:
July 21st, 2018, 12:50 pm
I think you may be looking for Chapter 16 of the Apostolic Tradition. Does anyone have the Greek handy?
A concubine, who is a slave and has reared her children and has been faithful to her master alone, may become a hearer; but if she has failed in these matters she must be rejected. If a man has a concubine, he must desist and marry legally; if he is unwilling, he must be rejected.
The rationale would probably be that a slave who is a concubine has no choice. I remember being a little surprised when I first read Chapter 21, but Chapter 16 is probably what you are looking for.

You may be able to find other relevant references in this paper:

https://genius.com/Jennifer-a-glancy-sl ... -annotated
I don't think it was Hippolytus. I remember vaguely about it being a bit like the Didache ("How to Baptise - Use water. Running or still?. Running OK, but if you don't have running water, still water is OK. Warm or cold? Cold OK, but if you don't have cold, warm is OK" (Much like the Didache), but then going on to the bits about you can't baptise a charioteer, a soldier, etc, but a slave-girl prostitute OK (which the Didache doesn't discuss).
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Stirling Bartholomew
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Re: Requirements for Baptism

Post by Stirling Bartholomew » July 22nd, 2018, 2:17 pm

Could not find what you are looking for, however here is a place where Chrysostom mentions πόρναι καὶ τελῶναι in a light/heavy argument structure in a discussion of βαπτίζεσθαι ... ὑπὸ τοῦ Πνεύματος.

Παρὰ γὰρ τὴν ἀρχὴν ὑπὸ Ἰωάννου ἐβαπτί-
σθησαν· καὶ μὴ θαυμάσῃς. Εἰ γὰρ πόρναι καὶ τελῶ-
ναι ἐπὶ τὸ βάπτισμα ᾔεσαν ἐκεῖνο, πολλῷ μᾶλλον οἱ
μετὰ ταῦτα βαπτίζεσθαι μέλλοντες ὑπὸ τοῦ Πνεύμα-
τος.

This document is found in the TLG open corpus.
JOANNES CHRYSOSTOMUS, In Acta apostolorum (homiliae 1-55). {2062.154}
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C. Stirling Bartholomew

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Requirements for Baptism

Post by Jonathan Robie » July 22nd, 2018, 3:16 pm

Shirley Rollinson wrote:
July 21st, 2018, 8:53 pm
I don't think it was Hippolytus. I remember vaguely about it being a bit like the Didache ("How to Baptise - Use water. Running or still?. Running OK, but if you don't have running water, still water is OK. Warm or cold? Cold OK, but if you don't have cold, warm is OK" (Much like the Didache), but then going on to the bits about you can't baptise a charioteer, a soldier, etc, but a slave-girl prostitute OK (which the Didache doesn't discuss).
The Apostolic Traditions has a section a little like that, Section 21, which comes after the part about the slave girl.:
At the hour in which the cock crows, they shall first pray over the water. When they come to the water, the water shall be pure and flowing, that is, the water of a spring or a flowing body of water. Then they shall take off all their clothes. The children shall be baptized first. All of the children who can answer for themselves, let them answer. If there are any children who cannot answer for themselves, let their parents answer for them, or someone else from their family. After this, the men will be baptized. Finally, the women, after they have unbound their hair, and removed their jewelry. No one shall take any foreign object with themselves down into the water.
Does this sound like what you were looking for? But this instruction comes after Section 16, which I quoted earlier.

Does anyone know where to find the Greek text of the Apostolic Traditions online?
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Stirling Bartholomew
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Joined: August 9th, 2012, 4:19 pm

Re: Requirements for Baptism

Post by Stirling Bartholomew » July 22nd, 2018, 5:15 pm

“Hippolyte de Rome. La tradition apostolique d'après les anciennes versions, 2nd edn.”, Ed. Botte, B. Paris: Cerf, 1968

Two pages of greek fragments that do not contain the text under consideration.

Postscript:

I have on occasion "recalled" reading something in Greek that turned out to be only found in Latin.
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C. Stirling Bartholomew

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