Songs in ancient Greek: Holy Holy Holy

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Songs in ancient Greek: Holy Holy Holy

Postby Louis L Sorenson » October 3rd, 2011, 12:50 am

Hello all,

Here is my first attempt [subsequent changes have been incorporated] at the song "Holy, Holy, Holy." I know its a hard thing to convert a song in one language to another, but we do have a lot of parallels in the church fathers. τί φρονεῖς; any suggestions? Anyone want to give a try at recording it? Hopefully, I have not there are no blatant gaffs. οἶμοι τάλας ἔγωγε. τί ποιήσω;

Song Title: Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty
Text: Reginald Heber
Music: John B. Dykes
Tune: NICAEA, Meter: 11 12.12 10
Links:
http://www.hymnary.org/text/holy_holy_holy_lord_god_almighty_early
http://www.hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh064.sht


1. Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!
Early in the morning our song shall rise to thee.
Holy, holy, holy! Merciful and mighty,
God in three persons, blessed Trinity!

1 ἅγιος, ἅγιος, ἅγιος,
2 ὁ θεὸς Κύριος παντοκράτωρ
3 ὄρθρου βαθέος
4 ἡ ᾠδὴ ἡμῶν ἀρεῖται εἰς σέ.
5 ἅγιος, ἅγιος, ἅγιος,
6 δυνατός ἔτι ἵλεως ὤν
7 ἐν τρῖσι ὁ θεὸς εἶς
8 ἡ εὐλογητὴ τρίας.


2. Holy, holy, holy! All the saints adore thee,
casting down their golden crowns around the glassy sea;
cherubim and seraphim falling down before thee,
which wert, and art, and evermore shalt be.

9 ἅγιος, ἅγιος, ἅγιος,
10 πάντες οἱ ἅγιοί σοι εὐδοκοῦσιν
11 καταβάλλωντες τοὺς χρυσοῦς στεφάνους
12 παρὰ τὴν ὑαλίνην θάλασσαν [was θάλασσαν ὑαλίνην ]
13 οἱ δὲ χερουβὶν καὶ οἱ σεραφὶν
14 προσπίπτουσιν ἔμπροσθέν σου
15 ὃς ἦν καὶ ὢν καὶ ἐρχόμενος
16 εἰς αιῶνας δὴ ἔσται. [was ἔσῃ]


3. Holy, holy, holy! Though the darkness hide thee,
though the eye of sinful man thy glory may not see,
only thou art holy; there is none beside thee,
perfect in power, in love and purity.

17 ἅγιε, ἅγιε, ἅγιε [was ἅγιος, ἅγιος, ἅγιος ]
18 καίπερ τοῦ σκότους σε κρύψαντος [ was τὸ σκότος σε κρύψαν]
19 καίπερ τῶν ἁμαρτωλῶν ὀφθαλμῶν [was οἱ ὀφθαλμοὶ ἁμαρτωλῶν]
20 τὴν σὴν δόξαν μὴ ἑωρακότων [ was ἑωρακότες ]
21 σύγε μόνος εἶ ἅγιος
22 οὐδεὶς παρά σε στήκει
23 τέλειος ἐν δυνάμει
24 ἀγάπῃ τε κ' ἁγιωσύνῃ


4. Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!
All thy works shall praise thy name,
in earth and sky and sea.
Holy, holy, holy! Merciful and mighty,
God in three persons, blessed Trinity.

25 ἅγιε, ἅγιε, ἅγιε [was ἅγιος, ἅγιος, ἅγιος ]
26 θεὲ Κύριε παντοκράτορ [was ὁ θεὸς Κύριος παντοκράτωρ ]
27 πάντα τὰ ἔργα σου
28 ἦ μὴν ἐπαινέσει σε.
29 ἅγιος, ἅγιος, ἅγιος,
30 δυνατός ἔτι ἵλεως ὤν
31 ἐν τρῖσι ὁ θεὸς εἶς
32 ἡ εὐλογητὴ τρίας.
Louis L Sorenson
 
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Re: Songs in ancient Greek: Holy Holy Holy

Postby RandallButh » October 3rd, 2011, 3:30 am

Louis will do a good job of recording and keep his alfa and o-mikron separate. I will let the songwriter play with the words.

It was hearing an internet version of these lines that crossed a line for me and led me to name a brand of American seminary Greek pronunciation "Astartean". AGIAS AGIAS AGIAS 'of a female holy-thing' doesn't fit with Greek in the NT. At least on this song it would help if singers-along would use an 'oh' sound rather than an 'ah'. The AGIAS pronunciation of ἅγιος already breaks the 'Erasmian' priniciple of one sound one graph, so they might as well join ο to ω, like the Greeks did. It's silly to join ο to α, spiting a nose to save a face. Someday (soon?) it will be a curiosity of history.
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Re: Songs in ancient Greek: Holy Holy Holy

Postby Eeli Kaikkonen » October 3rd, 2011, 6:23 am

Louis L Sorenson wrote:Hello all,

1. Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!
Early in the morning our song shall rise to thee.
Holy, holy, holy! Merciful and mighty,
God in three persons, blessed Trinity!

1 ἅγιος, ἅγιος, ἅγιος,
2 Κύριος θεὸς παντοκράτωρ
3 ὄρθρου βαθέος
4 ἡ ᾠδὴ ἡμῶν ἀρεῖται εἰς σέ.


Too many syllables!

2: Drop off either Κύριος or θεὸς. παντοκράτωρ alone has 4 syllables, the English phrase "Lord God Almighty" has 5, 6 would be good.

3&4: Can't even think how the words and the melody can be fitted together.

If you could somehow express how the words go with the melody in your mind, it would be easier to comment. My rough estimate is that the amount of syllabes should be reduced by 1/5 or something like that, maybe even more.
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Re: Songs in ancient Greek: Holy Holy Holy

Postby Louis L Sorenson » October 3rd, 2011, 7:04 am

Here is an mp3 of the song. συγγνωμὴν ἔχετε, παρακαλῶ.

Yup, Greek has more syllables than English. Get used to it. It is one of the hardest things for songwriters. You have to be terse x3. But this is a slow song, and the syllables can fit in.

It can be found athttp://www.letsreadgreek.com/songs/holyholyholy/holyholyholy_vocal.mp3
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Re: Songs in ancient Greek: Holy Holy Holy

Postby KimmoHuovila » October 3rd, 2011, 11:37 am

Louis L Sorenson wrote:3. Holy, holy, holy! Though the darkness hide thee,
though the eye of sinful man thy glory may not see,
only thou art holy; there is none beside thee,
perfect in power, in love and purity.

17 ἅγιος, ἅγιος, ἅγιος,
18 καίπερ τὸ σκότος σε κρύψαν
19 καίπερ οἱ ὀφθαλμοὶ ἁμαρτωλῶν
20 τὴν σὴν δόξαν μὴ ἑωρακότες
21 σύγε μόνος εἶ ἅγιος
22 οὐδεὶς παρά σε στήκει
23 τέλειος (ἐν) δυνάμει
24 ἀγάπῃ τε κ' ἁγιωσύνῃ


I wonder about the nominative case on lines 18, 19, and 20. The subject is 2nd person (line 21). Should these not be genitive absolutes?
Kimmo Huovila
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Re: Songs in ancient Greek: Holy Holy Holy

Postby Louis L Sorenson » October 3rd, 2011, 6:40 pm

Thanks Kimmo,

I think you are correct there -- I'll change it accordingly. One of the things you find out when you write Greek (compose) is that you may struggle with new constructions (ones you have not written before). I always kind of thought καίπερ was like a standard conjunction introducing a verb clause -- I saw the lexicon entry in BDAG and realized it usually introduces a participle clause, and with a different subject from the main clause, needs to be thrown into the genitive construct.
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Re: Songs in ancient Greek: Holy Holy Holy

Postby Shirley Rollinson » October 4th, 2011, 7:49 pm

It probably needs a vocative - hagie, hagie, hagie !

sorry - I can't figure out how to get Greek characters with this reply box.
Sending emails to the mailing list was easier
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Re: Songs in ancient Greek: Holy Holy Holy

Postby Stephen Carlson » October 5th, 2011, 8:21 am

I think the hymn is inspired from Rev 4:8 (alluding to Isa 6:3) where it has these forms in the nominative.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D. (Duke)
Post-Doctoral Fellow, Faculty of Theology, Uppsala
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Re: Songs in ancient Greek: Holy Holy Holy

Postby cwconrad » October 5th, 2011, 11:41 am

Stephen Carlson wrote:I think the hymn is inspired from Rev 4:8 (alluding to Isa 6:3) where it has these forms in the nominative.


Ironic, isn't it? Use Greek songs to teach Koine Greek and imitate the solecisms of Revelation!
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
… ἐπειδὴ καὶ τὸν οἶνον ἠξίους
πίνειν, συνεκποτέ’ ἐστί σοι καὶ τὴν τρύγα Aristophanes, Plutus 1085
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Re: Songs in ancient Greek: Holy Holy Holy

Postby Shirley Rollinson » October 5th, 2011, 5:18 pm

Oooopppss - I should have checked the LXX
Isaiah 6:3 uses hagios
ME BAD
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