βλασφημείσθω

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Re: βλασφημείσθω

Postby Jonathan Robie » March 27th, 2014, 8:40 am

Mike Burke wrote:When used of people, does the word itself imply that the evil spoken (of some person) is false?


That's a really good question, and here I am in a hotel room without BDAG handy. I don't know the answer - does anyone else have evidence one way or another?

Mike Burke wrote:The quote from Demosthenes would seem to inicate that the word itself doesn't imply that the evil spoken is untrue.

Surely it would have been right and proper, men of Athens, that those who claim to receive a crown from you, should show that they are worthy of it, and not speak ill of me. But since they leave out the former of these two things and do the latter, I shall show that they are speaking falsely both in their praise of themselves and in their slander of me; and I shall prove this by their own deeds and by mine.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:abo:tlg,0014,051:3&lang=original



Maybe, but I don't think this is strong evidence. Since they do the latter (speak ill of him), he says he will prove that they are speaking falsely. So proving their blasphemy false is his reaction. Again, I don't know the answer. Does anyone else?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Re: A few useful antonym pairs to help you understand βλασφη

Postby Jonathan Robie » March 27th, 2014, 8:45 am

Stephen Hughes wrote:At your pre-beginner level, questions about synonymity and nuance are really not useful for your overall progress in the language. I would like to encourage you again to learn some level-appropriate vocabulary.


I think he's just asking whether βλασφημέω implies that the charges are false or not. Seems like a reasonable question to me.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Look in the text for the contexts βλασφημέω is used in then.

Postby Stephen Hughes » March 27th, 2014, 10:21 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:I think he's just asking whether βλασφημέω implies that the charges are false or not. Seems like a reasonable question to me.

If it is really such a simply question that is reasonable, yes. The answer to that is evident from the general contexts in which the word is used.

It is best to look to the text for clarification, then. A basic grammar and a very simple dictionary should be enough to deal with that. There is no need to get into long and detailed posts or discussions about it.
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Re: βλασφημείσθω

Postby Barry Hofstetter » March 27th, 2014, 12:19 pm

Here are both βλασφημἐω and βλασφημἰα from BDAG:

βλασφημέω impf. ἐβλασφήμουν; 1 aor. ἐβλασφήμησα. Pass.: 1 fut. βλασφημηθήσομαι; 1 aor. ἐβλασφημήθην (s. next two entries; Pla. et al.; PSI 298, 14; LXX; Alex., Ep. XVI 2f; TestJob 16:7; AssMos Fgm. j p. 67 Denis; Philo, Joseph., Just.) prim. ‘to demean through speech’, an esp. sensitive matter in an honor-shame oriented society. to speak in a disrespectful way that demeans, denigrates, maligns
ⓐ in relation to humans slander, revile, defame (Isocr. 10, 45 w. λοιδορεῖν) τινά someone (Socrat., Ep. 22, 2; Chion, Ep. 7, 1 ἡμᾶς) μηδένα (Philo, Spec. Leg. 4, 197; Jos., Vi. 232; Hippol., Ref. 7, 32, 6) speak evil of Tit 3:2. Pass. Ro 3:8; 1 Cor 4:13 v.l.; 10:30 (ὑπὲρ οὗ = ὑπ. τούτου ὑπ. οὗ); Dg 5:14. Abs. Ac 13:45; 18:6.
ⓑ in relation to transcendent or associated entities slander, revile, defame, speak irreverently/impiously/disrespectfully of or about
α. a Gr-Rom. deity (for Gr-Rom. attitudes respecting deities Ps.-Pla., Alc. II 149c; Diod S 2, 21, 7; Philo, Spec. Leg. 1, 53; Jos., Ant. 4, 207, C. Apion 2, 237 [s. βλασφημία bγ]; Orig., C. Cels. 8, 43, 27; s. bε below and at the very end of the entry) τὴν θεὸν ἡμῶν Ac 19:37.
β. God in Israelite/Christian tradition (4 Km 19:4) τὸν θεόν (cp. Philo, Fuga 84b; Jos., Ant. 4, 202; 6, 183; Hippol., Ref. 7, 11) Rv 16:11, 21. Abs. (2 Macc 10:34; 12:14; Orig., C. Cels. 8, 43, 31; Hippol., Ref. 1, Pr. 2) Mt 9:3; 26:65 (JKennard, Jr., ZNW 53, ’62, 25–51); Mk 2:7; J 10:36; Ac 26:11; 1 Ti 1:20; 1 Pt 4:4 (the last 3 passages may be interpr. as not referring exclusively to God). βλασφημίαι, ὅσα ἐὰν βλασφημήσωσιν whatever impious slanders they utter Mk 3:28 (cp. Pla., Leg. 7, 800c βλ. βλασφημίαν; Tob 1:18 S).
γ. God’s name Ro 2:24 (contrast the approval expressed OGI 339, 30); 2 Cl 13:2a; ITr 8:2b (all three Is 52:5); 1 Ti 6:1; Rv 13:6; 16:9; 2 Cl 13:1, 2b (quot. of unknown orig.), 4; Hs 6, 2, 3 v.l.
δ. God’s Spirit εἰς τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον Mk 3:29; Lk 12:10. On impious slander of the Holy Spirit s. WWeber, ZWT 52, 1910, 320–41; HWindisch, in Porter-Bacon Festschr. 1928, 218–21; EBuonaiuti, Ricerche Religiose 6, 1930, 481–91; OEvans, ET 68, ’57, 240–44; GFitzer, TZ 13, ’57, 161–82; JWilliams, NTS 12, ’65, 75–77; CColpe, JJeremias Festschr., ’70, 63–79.
ε. Christ Mt 27:39; Mk 15:29; Lk 23:39; ἕτερα πολλὰ β. 22:65 (cp. Vett. Val. 67, 20 πολλὰ βλασφημήσει θεούς). τὸν κύριον Hs 8, 6, 4; 8, 8, 2; 9, 19, 3; ISm 5:2; εἰς τ. κύριον Hv 2, 2, 2; Hs 6, 2, 4; τὸν βασιλέα μου MPol 9:3.—The name of Christ Js 2:7.
ζ. angels δόξας β. 2 Pt 2:10; Jd 8. Angels are also meant in ὅσα οὐκ οἴδασιν β. Jd 10 and ἐν οἷς ἀγνοοῦσιν β. defaming where they have no knowledge 2 Pt 2:12 (B-D-F §152, 1; Rob. 473). S. δόξα 4.
η. things that constitute the significant possessions of Christians τὴν ὁδὸν τ. δικαιοσύνης ApcPt 7:22; cp. 2 Pt 2:2. Here and elsewh. pass. ὁ λόγος τ. θεοῦ Tit 2:5; ὑμῶν τὸ ἀγαθόν Ro 14:16; τὸ ἐν θεῷ πλῆθος ITr 8:2a; τὸ ὄνομα ὑμῶν μεγάλως β. 1 Cl 1:1; τὸν νόμον τοῦ κυρίου Hs 8, 6, 2.—In our lit. β. is used w. the acc. of the pers. or thing (Plut.; Appian [Nägeli 44]; Vett. Val. [s. bε above]; Philo [s. bα and bβ above]; Joseph. [s. bα and bβ above]; 4 Km 19:22) or w. εἰς and acc. (Demosth. 51, 3; Philo, Mos. 2, 206; Jos., Bell. 2, 406. Specif. εἰς θεούς and the like, Pla., Rep. 2 p. 381e; Vett. Val. 44, 4; 58, 12; Philo, Fuga 84a; Jos., Ant. 8, 392; Da 3:96; Bel 8 Theod.).—S. βλασφημία end. DELG. M-M. s.v.-ος. TW.

βλασφημία, ας, ἡ (s. βλασφημέω; Eur., Democr., Pla.+; LXX, Philo, Joseph.; Just., A I, 26, 5; Ath. 31, 2, R.72, 27; AssMos Fgm. j p. 67 Denis; loanw. in rabb.) speech that denigrates or defames, reviling, denigration, disrespect, slander
ⓐ gener., of any kind of speech that is defamatory or abusive, w. other vices Mk 7:22; Eph 4:31; Col 3:8. πᾶσα β. all abusive speech Hm 8:3; cp. Mt 12:31a. Pl. (Jos., Vi. 245) Mt 15:19; 1 Ti 6:4.
ⓑ specif., against humans and transcendent entities
α. humans (Cleanthes [IV–III B.C.] 1 p. 135, 21 [in Diog. L. 7, 17, 3]; Polyb. 11, 5, 8; Jos., Ant. 3, 307, Vi. 260) β. ἔκ τινος slander of (i.e. emanating from) someone Rv 2:9; cp. IEph 10:2.
β. the devil κρίσιν βλασφημίας a reviling judgment Jd 9 (but s. Field [Notes 244], who favors ‘accusation of [the devil for] blasphemy’).
γ. God and what is God’s (Comp. II 153f [Menand., Fgm. 715 Kock] ἡ εἰς τὸ θεῖον β.; Ezk 35:12; 1 Macc 2:6; 2 Macc 8:4; 10:35; 15:24; Philo, Leg. ad Gai. 368) Mt 26:65 (OLinton, NTS 7, ’61, 258–62); Mk 2:7 v.l.; 14:64; Lk 5:21 (pl.); J 10:33; Rv 13:5 (pl.); 2 Cl 13:3; D 3:6; β. πρὸς τὸν θεόν (Iambl., Vi. Pyth. 32, 216; cp. εἰς τὸν πατέρα Hippol., Ref. 9, 12, 19) Rv 13:6. βλασφημίας ἐπιφέρεσθαι τῷ ὀνόματι κυρίου 1 Cl 47:7; προσέθηκαν κατὰ ὄνομα τοῦ κυρίου βλασφημίαν Hs 6, 2, 3; β., ὅσα ἐὰν βλασφημήσωσιν Mk 3:28, s. βλασφημέω bβ; ἡ τοῦ πνεύματος (obj. gen.) β. Mt 12:31b, s. βλασφημέω bδ. ὀνόματα βλασφημίας (gen. of qual.) Rv 13:1; 17:3. ῥήματα βλασφημίας Ac 6:11 v.l.—The passages in β and γ generate an emotive aspect associated with denigration of a prestigious entity (cp. Origen’s rejoinder to Celsus: C. Celsum 8, 38 with reff. to Ex 22:27; Ro 12:14; 1 Cor 6:10). Hence the caution about denigrating the devil. Impious denigration of deity is esp. heinous and many translations reflect this emotive value in the loanword ‘blasphemy’. But Greco-Roman and Semitic minds would first of all, as Ac 19:37 and Rom 2:24 indicate, think in terms of disrespect shown or harm done to a deity’s reputation, a fact obscured by the rendering ‘blasphemy’, which has to some extent in Eng. gone its own emotive way semantically and has in effect become a religious technical term, which is not the case with βλασφημέω. On the range of expressions for denigration of God s. ESanders, Jewish Law fr. Jesus to the Mishnah ’90, 57–67.—DELG s.v. βλασφημέω. M-M. TW.


Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
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Re: A few useful antonym pairs to help you understand βλασφη

Postby Mike Burke » March 27th, 2014, 3:04 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:
Mike Burke wrote:When used of people, does the word itself imply that the evil spoken (of some person) is false?


That's a really good question...


Jonathan Robie wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:At your pre-beginner level, questions about synonymity and nuance are really not useful for your overall progress in the language. I would like to encourage you again to learn some level-appropriate vocabulary.


I think he's just asking whether βλασφημέω implies that the charges are false or not. Seems like a reasonable question to me.

Thank you.

From what I can see, it doesn't look like the word itself necessarily implies that the charges are false (at least when a human being is the object of the charges.)
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Re: βλασφημείσθω

Postby Mike Burke » March 27th, 2014, 4:15 pm

Stephen Hughes wrote:
Jonathan Robie wrote:I think he's just asking whether βλασφημέω implies that the charges are false or not. Seems like a reasonable question to me.

If it is really such a simply question that is reasonable, yes. The answer to that is evident from the general contexts in which the word is used...

Wouldn't the context of Jude 9 argue decisively against the word itself implying that the charges are false?

ὁ δὲ Μιχαὴλ ὁ ἀρχάγγελος, ὅτε τῷ διαβόλῳ διακρινόμενος διελέγετο περὶ τοῦ Μωϋσέως σώματος, οὐκ ἐτόλμησεν κρίσιν ἐπενεγκεῖν βλασφημίας, ἀλλὰ εἶπεν Ἐπιτιμήσαι σοι Κύριος.
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