Definition of ὁσος and where is it in the bible?

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Jacob Rhoden
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Definition of ὁσος and where is it in the bible?

Post by Jacob Rhoden » March 13th, 2015, 9:59 pm

The word from Duff chapter 5, defined as "ὁσος — as great, how great, as much, how much" can't be found when I search the SBL greek NT in Logos by typing "ὁσος" or "οσος" in the Logos search box. Duff says this word appears in the NT 110 times.

I don't know much about the logos search, so I am wondering if its in the NT with a different form. I notice if I try ὁσον, and ὁσους, I can find some results, but in these cases it doesn't seem to have the same sense as the Duff definition, i.e.:

"Do wedding guests mourn while[ὁσον] celebrating with the groom?" Mat 9:15
"I correct and discipline everyone[ὁσους] I love." Rev 3:19

I assume I am missing something obvious, but what?
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timothy_p_mcmahon
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Re: Definition of ὁσος and where is it in the bible?

Post by timothy_p_mcmahon » March 13th, 2015, 10:53 pm

I'm just learning λογος software so I can't help you too much, but if you can find a verse in which οσος occurs and right-click it you can look it up as a lemma - that should get you all the occurrences regardless of declined form.

As for the examples you found:

In Matthew 9:15, εφ οσον is short for εφ οσον χρονον, "for as much time as" the groom is with them; "while" is a more idiomatic rendering.

In Revelation 3:19, οσους εαν φιλω ελεγχω και παιδευω is "As many as I love, I correct and discipline" (in other words, the two groups, those beloved and those disciplined, consist of the same members). Compare Romans 8:14.
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Stephen Carlson
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Re: Definition of ὁσος and where is it in the bible?

Post by Stephen Carlson » March 14th, 2015, 2:17 am

This word is more common in the plural, especially in the neuter nom/acc plural ὅσα.
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Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
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Jacob Rhoden
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Re: Definition of ὁσος and where is it in the bible?

Post by Jacob Rhoden » March 14th, 2015, 7:27 am

When I see your "extended" English version of how to translate that word, it now makes much more sense. Thanks so much!

I bet Logos has a way to somehow search for οσ*, I'll work it out eventually I'm sure.

Thanks guys.
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Louis L Sorenson
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Re: Definition of ὁσος and where is it in the bible?

Post by Louis L Sorenson » March 19th, 2015, 10:40 pm

I've always found Smyth's A Greek Grammar's discussion of correlative pronouns valuable. http://www.ccel.org/s/smyth/grammar/htm ... ni.htm#340
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: Definition of ὁσος and where is it in the bible?

Post by Jonathan Robie » March 20th, 2015, 4:28 pm

I find 111 instances in the SBLGNT, 110 in Nestle 1904.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Definition of ὁσος and where is it in the bible?

Post by Jonathan Robie » March 20th, 2015, 4:28 pm

Jacob Rhoden wrote:I bet Logos has a way to somehow search for οσ*, I'll work it out eventually I'm sure.
Or to search based on the lemma? I would expect it to do that fairly easily.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Definition of ὁσος and where is it in the bible?

Post by Jonathan Robie » March 20th, 2015, 5:48 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:I find 111 instances in the SBLGNT, 110 in Nestle 1904.
One easy way to see them all see them all is to use laparola.net,
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Jacob Rhoden
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Re: Definition of ὁσος and where is it in the bible?

Post by Jacob Rhoden » March 28th, 2015, 7:56 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:
Jacob Rhoden wrote:I bet Logos has a way to somehow search for οσ*, I'll work it out eventually I'm sure.
Or to search based on the lemma? I would expect it to do that fairly easily.
I downloaded the Accordance trial, and it can find all occurrences of the word just by typing in the box at the top. So I just went ahead and purchased Accordance. (Saves time compared to trying to learn how Logos works)
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: Definition of ὁσος and where is it in the bible?

Post by Stephen Hughes » March 30th, 2015, 7:47 am

ὁσος is one of those words where just learning an Engish definition is not enough. It fulfills a role in the sentence and needs to understood as part of the whole sentence. It is used in certain syntactical patterns rather than simply having a meaning of its own. Together with other words, it sets up the structure of what is being said.
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Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

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