Who knows who?

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Tim Evans
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Joined: July 10th, 2015, 1:40 am

Who knows who?

Post by Tim Evans » August 26th, 2015, 3:57 am

Hi Guys,
εἰ δέ τις ἀγαπᾷ ⸋τὸν θεόν⸌, οὗτος ἔγνωσται ⸋ὑπ᾿ αὐτοῦ⸌. (1 Cor 8:3)
but if anyone loves God, he is known by Him.
NASB capitalises the Him to clarify who is known by who. Is there something about greek grammar or one of the words in this sentence that allows us to know who loves who?

Thanks!
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: Who knows who?

Post by Jonathan Robie » August 26th, 2015, 6:31 am

Tim Evans wrote:NASB capitalises the Him to clarify who is known by who.
Wrong, that's not why it is capitalized. But let's not discuss English translations here.

Still, let me mention one thing about English. A better title for this thread would be "who knows whom?" In sentences like "he knows me", "I know him", or the (awkward) sentences "Him I know", it's clear who knows whom from the form of the words. Greek is like that too. You won't be able to figure this out without working systematically through a Greek grammar.
Tim Evans wrote:Is there something about greek grammar or one of the words in this sentence that allows us to know who loves who?
That's really too broad a question to discuss. You need to dig into the Greek far enough to ask specific questions about words or grammatical questions, not just "is there anything there". What are you doing to learn the Greek language?
εἰ δέ τις ἀγαπᾷ ⸋τὸν θεόν⸌, οὗτος ἔγνωσται ⸋ὑπ᾿ αὐτοῦ⸌. (1 Cor 8:3)
I'll give you a hint about the kinds of things you will learn. Take a look at τις and τὸν θεόν. One of these forms is functioning like 'who', the other is functioning like 'whom'. In the first chapter or so of a Greek grammar, you can learn about nominative and accusative cases. Here's one you could use: http://greek-language.com/grammar/04.html
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Tim Evans
Posts: 88
Joined: July 10th, 2015, 1:40 am

Re: Who knows whom?

Post by Tim Evans » August 26th, 2015, 8:07 am

With regards to English grammar for "who vs whom", I get the difference, I don't think personally I know anyone who uses 'whom' in casual conversation. Maybe its an Australian thing? I get that it can be annoying for some people though, sorry. (:

With regards to Nominative/Accusative/Genitive, I understand the difference and I believe I am able to parse that sentence. I am not sure how knowing the difference (in this sentence) helps understand which person is doing the knowing?
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Jonathan Robie
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Location: Durham, NC
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Re: Who knows who?

Post by Jonathan Robie » August 26th, 2015, 9:06 am

Tim Evans wrote:With regards to English grammar for "who vs whom", I get the difference, I don't think personally I know anyone who uses 'whom' in casual conversation. Maybe its an Australian thing? I get that it can be annoying for some people though, sorry. (:
In English, I agree that people rarely say whom these days. In Greek, you don't have a choice. Word order does not have the same significance in Greek that it does in English, so without inflecting words, there would be no way to distinguish a subject from an object.
Tim Evans wrote:With regards to Nominative/Accusative/Genitive, I understand the difference and I believe I am able to parse that sentence. I am not sure how knowing the difference (in this sentence) helps understand which person is doing the knowing?
I pointed you to a chapter that explains the relationship between cases and subject / object relationships. What does it say about this question? Try to read the chapter first, work your way through it, then ask any questions that come up along the way.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

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