They disciplined _us_ ?? (Heb 12:10)

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Tim Evans
Posts: 78
Joined: July 10th, 2015, 1:40 am

They disciplined _us_ ?? (Heb 12:10)

Post by Tim Evans » November 7th, 2016, 2:05 am

I really appreciate all of the great feedback you guys are able to provide, I wonder if anyone can help with this one
οἱ μὲν γὰρ
- πρὸς ὀλίγας ἡμέρας
- κατὰ τὸ δοκοῦν αὐτοῖς
ἐπαίδευον,
i.e.
They
- for a short time
- according to what seemed best to them
disciplined

For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them,
Is there an "us" hiding here somewhere? (I understand that the context implies the direct object is _us_ but I am thrown off by the fact NASB doesn't show it has been added)

Wes Wood
Posts: 686
Joined: September 20th, 2013, 8:18 pm

Re: They disciplined _us_ ?? (Heb 12:10)

Post by Wes Wood » November 7th, 2016, 9:03 am

[9] εἶτα τοὺς μὲν τῆς σαρκὸς ἡμῶν πατέρας εἴχομεν παιδευτὰς καὶ ἐνετρεπόμεθα: οὐ πολὺ μᾶλλον ὑποταγησόμεθα τῷ πατρὶ τῶν πνευμάτων καὶ ζήσομεν; [10] οἱ μὲν γὰρ πρὸς ὀλίγας ἡμέρας κατὰ τὸ δοκοῦν αὐτοῖς ἐπαίδευον, ὁ δὲ ἐπὶ τὸ συμφέρον εἰς τὸ μεταλαβεῖν τῆς ἁγιότητος αὐτοῦ.


I am on my phone and have posted the W&H rather than the NA/UBS text for 12:9-10 for my convenience. I think the answer to your question lies in the close relationship of verse nine to verse ten. Verse nine says, in part, that we had fleshly fathers to train us and implies that we should submit to the father more. Verse ten continues this comparison between fatherly discipline and the disciple of God. The discipline in verse nine was already tied to ...ἡμῶν πατέρας. For this reason, I wouldn't have special formatting for 'us' had I been the author, commitee, editor, etc. As is hopefully evident, this is only my 2 cents.
Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ

Barry Hofstetter
Posts: 1173
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: They disciplined _us_ ?? (Heb 12:10)

Post by Barry Hofstetter » November 7th, 2016, 10:31 am

Tim Evans wrote:I really appreciate all of the great feedback you guys are able to provide, I wonder if anyone can help with this one
οἱ μὲν γὰρ
- πρὸς ὀλίγας ἡμέρας
- κατὰ τὸ δοκοῦν αὐτοῖς
ἐπαίδευον,
i.e.
They
- for a short time
- according to what seemed best to them
disciplined

For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them,
Is there an "us" hiding here somewhere? (I understand that the context implies the direct object is _us_ but I am thrown off by the fact NASB doesn't show it has been added)
Just to be perfectly pedantic, not elision (which is the omission of a final letter or syllable), but elipsis is the correct term.
Does this mean an "us" is considered to be ellided? NASB doesn't indicate so with its special method of capitalising to indicate "added" text:
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
Χαίρετε ἐν κυρίῳ πάντοτε· πάλιν ἐρῶ, χαίρετε

Jason Hare
Posts: 496
Joined: June 2nd, 2011, 5:28 pm
Location: Rehovot, Israel
Contact:

Re: They disciplined _us_ ?? (Heb 12:10)

Post by Jason Hare » November 7th, 2016, 10:46 am

Wes Wood wrote:[9] εἶτα τοὺς μὲν τῆς σαρκὸς ἡμῶν πατέρας εἴχομεν παιδευτὰς καὶ ἐνετρεπόμεθα: οὐ πολὺ μᾶλλον ὑποταγησόμεθα τῷ πατρὶ τῶν πνευμάτων καὶ ζήσομεν; [10] οἱ μὲν γὰρ πρὸς ὀλίγας ἡμέρας κατὰ τὸ δοκοῦν αὐτοῖς ἐπαίδευον, ὁ δὲ ἐπὶ τὸ συμφέρον εἰς τὸ μεταλαβεῖν τῆς ἁγιότητος αὐτοῦ.
Here's the text from the USB4:
εἶτα τοὺς μὲν τῆς σαρκὸς ἡμῶν πατέρας εἴχομεν παιδευτὰς καὶ ἐνετρεπόμεθα· οὐ πολὺ [δὲ] μᾶλλον ὑποταγησόμεθα τῷ πατρὶ τῶν πνευμάτων καὶ ζήσομεν; οἱ μὲν γὰρ πρὸς ὀλίγας ἡμέρας κατὰ τὸ δοκοῦν αὐτοῖς ἐπαίδευον, ὁ δὲ ἐπὶ τὸ συμφέρον εἰς τὸ μεταλαβεῖν τῆς ἁγιότητος αὐτοῦ.
You'll notice that the text is identical, so your convenience didn't inconvenience anyone else. :)

I'd definitely agree with your comment, Wes, that the "us" idea is pulled from verse 9. It's talking about "our fathers" disciplining "us" when we were children, as compared to spiritual disciple that we receive from our spiritual father. I agree with you.
Jason A. Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel

Tim Evans
Posts: 78
Joined: July 10th, 2015, 1:40 am

Re: They disciplined _us_ ?? (Heb 12:10)

Post by Tim Evans » November 7th, 2016, 4:54 pm

Thanks, that is what I suspected, but I wasn't entirely sure I wasn't simply missing something.

I guess this means NASB doesn't use its uppercase convention when they consider the word the evidence for that word is strong enough in the context that it doesn't need the uppercase.

Tim Evans
Posts: 78
Joined: July 10th, 2015, 1:40 am

Re: They disciplined _us_ ?? (Heb 12:10)

Post by Tim Evans » November 7th, 2016, 4:56 pm

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
Just to be perfectly pedantic, not elision (which is the omission of a final letter or syllable), but elipsis is the correct term.
Does this mean an "us" is considered to be ellided? NASB doesn't indicate so with its special method of capitalising to indicate "added" text:
Thanks Barry, my lecturer uses "elided", I'll have to go look up the two words now :D

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