Question about preposition εκ

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Maria Cezar
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Question about preposition εκ

Post by Maria Cezar » February 22nd, 2017, 5:45 am

Is εκ always ablative? When do we translate it as "out from" vs. "out of" ?
I'm trying to parse 1 John 3:9

Πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ ἁμαρτίαν οὐ ποιεῖ, ὅτι σπέρμα αὐτοῦ ἐν αὐτῷ μένει: καὶ οὐ δύναταιἁμαρτάνειν, ὅτι ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ γεγέννηται.

In my textbook Essentials of New Testament Greek by Ray Summers it is always ablative . Started learning Greek via Skype but lost contact with my teacher before we can finish the lessons. So I'm finish to answer the exercises on my own. Any help in understanding the preposition would be appreciated.

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Question about preposition εκ

Post by Jonathan Robie » February 22nd, 2017, 1:41 pm

Yes, if you are an 8 case kind of person, έκ is always ablative. Smyth says that it implies starting from within and moving out and away from. I think both "out of" and "out from" convey that sense.

See Smyth:
ἐξ, ἐκ

[*] 1688. ἐξ, ἐκ out, out of, from, from within, opposed to ἐν, εἰς; cp. Lat. ex, e. As contrasted with ἀπό away from, ἐξ denotes from within.
1. ἐξ, ἐκ with the (Ablatival) Genitive only

In Arcadian and Cyprian ἐς ( = ἐξ) takes the dative.
a. Local: ““ἐκ Φοινί_κης ἐλαύνων” marching out of Phoenicia” X. A. 1.7.12; of transition: ἐκ πλείονος ἔφευγον they fled when at (from) a greater distance 1. 10. 11. On ἐξ in the constructio praegnans, see 1660 a.

b. Temporal: ““ἐκ τοῦ ἀ_ρίστου” after breakfast” X. A. 4.6.21, ἐκ παίδων from boyhood 4. 6. 14.

c. Other relations: immediate succession or transition: ““ἄλλην ἐξ ἄλλης πόλεως ἀμειβόμενος” exchanging one city for another” P. A. 37d, ἐκ πολέμου ποιούμενος εἰρήνην making peace after (a state of) war D. 19.133, ἐκ πτωχῶν πλούσιοι γίγνονται from beggars they become rich 8. 66. Origin: immediate origin (whereas ἀπό is used of remote origin, 1684. 1. c): ““ἀγαθοὶ καὶ ἐξ ἀγαθῶν” noble and of noble breed” P. Phae. 246a. Agent, regarded as the source: with pass. and intr. verbs instead of ὑπδ (chiefly poetic and in Hdt.): πόλεις ἐκ βασιλέως δεδομέναι cities a gift (having been given) of (by) the king X. A. 1.1.6, ““ὡμολογεῖτο ἐκ πάντων” it was agreed by all” T. 2.49; but ἐκ is often used with a different force, as ἐκ τῶν τυχόντων ἀνθρώπων συνοικισθῆναι to have been settled by the vulgar (as constituent parts of a whole) Lyc. 62. Consequence: ““ἐξ αὐτοῦ τοῦ ἔργου” in consequence of the fact itself” T. 1.75. Cause or ground of judgment (where the dat, is more usual with inanimate objects): ““ἐξ οὗ διέβαλλεν αὐτόν” for which reason he accused him” X. A. 6.6.11. Material: ““τὸ ἄγκιστρον ἐξ ἀδάμαντος” the hook of adamant” P. R. 616c. Instrument and means: ““ἐκ τῶν πόνων τὰ_ς ἀρετὰ_ς κτᾶσθαι” to acquire by labour the fruits of virtue” T. 1.123. Conformity: ““ἐκ τῶν νόμων” in accordance with the laws” D. 24.28. Manner (rare): ““ἐκ τοῦ ἴσου” on equal terms” T. 2.3. Partitive (cp. 1317 a): ““ἐκ τῶν δυναμένων εἰσί” they belong to the class that has power” P. G. 525e.

2. ἐξ, ἐκ in Composition

Out, from, off, away (cp. ἐξελαύνειν drive out and away); often with an implication of fulfilment, completion, thoroughness, resolution (ἐκπέρθειν sack utterly, ἐκδιδάσκειν teach thoroughly). Cp. 1648.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Shirley Rollinson
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Re: Question about preposition εκ

Post by Shirley Rollinson » February 23rd, 2017, 3:35 pm

Maria Cezar wrote:Is εκ always ablative? When do we translate it as "out from" vs. "out of" ?
I'm trying to parse 1 John 3:9

Πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ ἁμαρτίαν οὐ ποιεῖ, ὅτι σπέρμα αὐτοῦ ἐν αὐτῷ μένει: καὶ οὐ δύναταιἁμαρτάνειν, ὅτι ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ γεγέννηται.

In my textbook Essentials of New Testament Greek by Ray Summers it is always ablative . Started learning Greek via Skype but lost contact with my teacher before we can finish the lessons. So I'm finish to answer the exercises on my own. Any help in understanding the preposition would be appreciated.
Dear Maria
Welcome to B-Greek.
You're welcome to use my online textbook, which starts at
http://www.drshirley.org/greek/textbook02/index.html - it has a set of homeworks, available at
http://www.drshirley.org/greek/textbook ... works.html
and chapters on prepositions at
http://www.drshirley.org/greek/textbook ... itions.pdf and
http://www.drshirley.org/greek/textbook ... itions.pdf

Welcome,
Shirley Rollinson

Maria Cezar
Posts: 10
Joined: January 23rd, 2017, 9:01 am
Location: Philippines

Re: Question about preposition εκ

Post by Maria Cezar » February 27th, 2017, 8:33 am

Jonathan , I appreciate the help and thanks for the link too.
Wow Shirley , thank you so much for sharing your Online Greek Textbook ! Already downloaded some materials, and it will be of great help.

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