Using το to set off a quotation?

The forum for those who still struggle with morphology, syntax, and idiom, or who wish to discuss basic questions about the meaning of Greek texts, syntax, or words.
Forum rules
This is not a place for students to ask for the answers to their homework assignments. Users who do that may be banned.
Alan Bunning
Posts: 218
Joined: June 5th, 2011, 7:31 am
Contact:

Using το to set off a quotation?

Post by Alan Bunning » August 3rd, 2017, 9:40 am

Can το sometimes be used to set off a quotation in the same way οτι does? It looks to me like it does at: Matt. 19:18, Mark 9:23, Mark 12:33, 1Cor. 4:6, and maybe 2Cor. 1:17. Am I seeing a pattern here, or am I imagining something?

MAubrey
Posts: 841
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 8:52 pm
Location: Washington
Contact:

Re: Using το to set off a quotation?

Post by MAubrey » August 3rd, 2017, 10:11 am

Also Ephesians 4:9.

You're not imagining a thing. That's definitely real.
Mike Aubrey, Linguist
Koine-Greek.com

Alan Bunning
Posts: 218
Joined: June 5th, 2011, 7:31 am
Contact:

Re: Using το to set off a quotation?

Post by Alan Bunning » August 3rd, 2017, 10:23 am

MAubrey wrote:
August 3rd, 2017, 10:11 am
Also Ephesians 4:9.

You're not imagining a thing. That's definitely real.
Would you then say that it acts as a conjunction in those cases? Would the accent be affected in anyway?

Jonathan Robie
Posts: 3098
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Contact:

Re: Using το to set off a quotation?

Post by Jonathan Robie » August 3rd, 2017, 10:54 am

Alan Bunning wrote:
August 3rd, 2017, 10:23 am
Would you then say that it acts as a conjunction in those cases? Would the accent be affected in anyway?
Hmmm, I suspect it is just nominalizing the quote, turning it into a thing that can be referred to. As articles do.

I wonder where we can find a good discussion of this in a grammar or article or somesuch ...
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Barry Hofstetter
Posts: 1002
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: Using το to set off a quotation?

Post by Barry Hofstetter » August 3rd, 2017, 11:56 am

Not just a quotation, as in a citation, but anything which the author wishes to discuss as as topic which is not grammatically part of the sentence.

g. Any single word or clause: τὸ ῡ̔μεῖς ὅταν λέγω, τὴν πόλιν λέγω when I say You, I mean the State D. 18. 88, ὑπερβᾱ̀ς τὸ δίκᾱς ὑπεχέτω τοῦ φόνου omitting (the words) ‘let him submit to judgment for the murder’ D. 23. 220.

Smyth, H. W. (1920). A Greek Grammar for Colleges (p. 293). New York; Cincinnati; Chicago; Boston; Atlanta: American Book Company.

I recall Aristotle doing this quite a bit in discussing various concepts.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
ἐγὼ δὲ διδάσκω τε καὶ γράφω ἵνα τὰ ἀξιώτερα μανθάνω

Jonathan Robie
Posts: 3098
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Contact:

Re: Using το to set off a quotation?

Post by Jonathan Robie » August 3rd, 2017, 12:27 pm

It can also be used to topicalize the gist of what someone is saying, something someone is considering, etc.

Luke 1:62 ἐνένευον δὲ τῷ πατρὶ αὐτοῦ τὸ τί ἂν θέλοι καλεῖσθαι αὐτό.
Luke 9:46 Εἰσῆλθεν δὲ διαλογισμὸς ἐν αὐτοῖς, τὸ τίς ἂν εἴη μείζων αὐτῶν.
Luke 19:48 καὶ οὐχ εὕρισκον τὸ τί ποιήσωσιν, ὁ λαὸς γὰρ ἅπας ἐξεκρέματο αὐτοῦ ἀκούων.
Luke 22:23 καὶ αὐτοὶ ἤρξαντο συζητεῖν πρὸς ἑαυτοὺς τὸ τίς ἄρα εἴη ἐξ αὐτῶν ὁ τοῦτο μέλλων πράσσειν.
Luke 22:24 Ἐγένετο δὲ καὶ φιλονεικία ἐν αὐτοῖς, τὸ τίς αὐτῶν δοκεῖ εἶναι μείζων.
Acts 22:30 Τῇ δὲ ἐπαύριον βουλόμενος γνῶναι τὸ ἀσφαλὲς τὸ τί κατηγορεῖται ὑπὸ τῶν Ἰουδαίων ἔλυσεν αὐτόν, καὶ ἐκέλευσεν συνελθεῖν τοὺς ἀρχιερεῖς καὶ πᾶν τὸ συνέδριον, καὶ καταγαγὼν τὸν Παῦλον ἔστησεν εἰς αὐτούς.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Alan Bunning
Posts: 218
Joined: June 5th, 2011, 7:31 am
Contact:

Re: Using το to set off a quotation?

Post by Alan Bunning » August 3rd, 2017, 3:14 pm

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
August 3rd, 2017, 11:56 am
Not just a quotation, as in a citation, but anything which the author wishes to discuss as as topic which is not grammatically part of the sentence.

g. Any single word or clause: τὸ ῡ̔μεῖς ὅταν λέγω, τὴν πόλιν λέγω when I say You, I mean the State D. 18. 88, ὑπερβᾱ̀ς τὸ δίκᾱς ὑπεχέτω τοῦ φόνου omitting (the words) ‘let him submit to judgment for the murder’ D. 23. 220.

Smyth, H. W. (1920). A Greek Grammar for Colleges (p. 293). New York; Cincinnati; Chicago; Boston; Atlanta: American Book Company.

I recall Aristotle doing this quite a bit in discussing various concepts.
Judging from all the examples given, is it always in accusative (or nominative?) singular neuter form, or can it take other forms as well.

Robert Emil Berge
Posts: 32
Joined: August 24th, 2016, 1:34 pm

Re: Using το to set off a quotation?

Post by Robert Emil Berge » August 3rd, 2017, 6:42 pm

It can be of any case according to how it fits in the sentence. Here's an example of genitive from LSJ:
ἡ δόξα . . περὶ τοῦ οὕστινας δεῖ ἄρχειν the opinion about the question 'who ought to rule'

MAubrey
Posts: 841
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 8:52 pm
Location: Washington
Contact:

Re: Using το to set off a quotation?

Post by MAubrey » August 3rd, 2017, 10:28 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:
August 3rd, 2017, 10:54 am
Alan Bunning wrote:
August 3rd, 2017, 10:23 am
Would you then say that it acts as a conjunction in those cases? Would the accent be affected in anyway?
Hmmm, I suspect it is just nominalizing the quote, turning it into a thing that can be referred to. As articles do.
Precisely.
Mike Aubrey, Linguist
Koine-Greek.com

Stephen Hughes
Posts: 3332
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Using το to set off a quotation?

Post by Stephen Hughes » August 4th, 2017, 2:20 am

Alan Bunning wrote:
August 3rd, 2017, 9:40 am
Can το sometimes be used to set off a quotation in the same way οτι does? It looks to me like it does at: Matt. 19:18, Mark 9:23, Mark 12:33, 1Cor. 4:6, and maybe 2Cor. 1:17. Am I seeing a pattern here, or am I imagining something?
You could try using γὰρ or ὅτι, when you want to work a quotation into your argument. Alternatively, use τὸ when you want to work it into the syntax, and πού when you want to sound less like you're "giving them chapter and verse".
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest