αὐτός, Δέσποτα = "you, Lord"?

αὐτός, Δέσποτα = "you, Lord"?

Postby Jonathan Robie » June 15th, 2012, 8:31 am

Liturgy of St. John of Chrysostom wrote:Κύριε ὁ Θεὸς ἡμῶν, οὗ τὸ κράτος ἀνείκαστον καὶ ἡ δόξα ἀκατάληπτος· οὗ τὸ ἔλεος ἀμέτρητον καὶ ἡ φιλανθρωπία ἄφατος· αὐτός, Δέσποτα, κατὰ τὴν εὐσπλαγχνίαν σου, ἐπίβλεψον ἐφ' ἡμᾶς καὶ ἐπὶ τὸν ἅγιον οἶκον τοῦτον, καὶ ποίησον μεθ' ἡμῶν καὶ τῶν συνευχομένων ἡμῖν, πλούσια τὰ ἐλέη σου καὶ τοὺς οἰκτιρμούς σου.


Here, "αὐτός, Δέσποτα" seems to mean "you, Lord". How is αὐτός being used here?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Re: αὐτός, Δέσποτα = "you, Lord"?

Postby cwconrad » June 15th, 2012, 9:47 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:
Liturgy of St. John of Chrysostom wrote:Κύριε ὁ Θεὸς ἡμῶν, οὗ τὸ κράτος ἀνείκαστον καὶ ἡ δόξα ἀκατάληπτος· οὗ τὸ ἔλεος ἀμέτρητον καὶ ἡ φιλανθρωπία ἄφατος· αὐτός, Δέσποτα, κατὰ τὴν εὐσπλαγχνίαν σου, ἐπίβλεψον ἐφ' ἡμᾶς καὶ ἐπὶ τὸν ἅγιον οἶκον τοῦτον, καὶ ποίησον μεθ' ἡμῶν καὶ τῶν συνευχομένων ἡμῖν, πλούσια τὰ ἐλέη σου καὶ τοὺς οἰκτιρμούς σου.


Here, "αὐτός, Δέσποτα" seems to mean "you, Lord". How is αὐτός being used here?


Ordinarily the nominative pronoun is omitted with an imperative (βλέψον), but an intensifer could and here is used; "Look upon/over us yourself ... "
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
… ἐπειδὴ καὶ τὸν οἶνον ἠξίους
πίνειν, συνεκποτέ’ ἐστί σοι καὶ τὴν τρύγα Aristophanes, Plutus 1085
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Re: αὐτός, Δέσποτα = "you, Lord"?

Postby Jonathan Robie » June 15th, 2012, 9:50 am

OK, so I should completely disregard the translation in my edition ("du, Gebieter"), it's just wrong.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Re: αὐτός, Δέσποτα = "you, Lord"?

Postby David Lim » June 15th, 2012, 10:08 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:OK, so I should completely disregard the translation in my edition ("du, Gebieter"), it's just wrong.


I think it may not be wrong if it means "you, master" in English (I cannot read "du, Gebieter"). "you, master" is one way of conveying the correct meaning, not just a vocative address of the master but also pointing more directly at him. Another "translation", "yourself, master", would not be idiomatic English, and I am guessing not idiomatic German as well?
δαυιδ λιμ
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Re: αὐτός, Δέσποτα = "you, Lord"?

Postby Jonathan Robie » June 15th, 2012, 5:47 pm

David Lim wrote:
Jonathan Robie wrote:OK, so I should completely disregard the translation in my edition ("du, Gebieter"), it's just wrong.


I think it may not be wrong if it means "you, master" in English (I cannot read "du, Gebieter"). "you, master" is one way of conveying the correct meaning, not just a vocative address of the master but also pointing more directly at him. Another "translation", "yourself, master", would not be idiomatic English, and I am guessing not idiomatic German as well?


That makes sense. And no, it would not be idiomatic German.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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