ἀλλ’ οὐδὲ in Origen
Posted: February 13th, 2014, 7:35 am
αἰσχρὸν γὰρ γυναικὶ λαλεῖν ἐν ἐκκλησίᾳ, καὶ διδάϲκειν δὲ γυναικὶ οὐκ ἐπιτρέπω ἁπλῶς ἀλλ’ οὐδὲ αὐθεντεῖν ἀνδρόϲ.
[Origen, Commentary on 1 Corinthians 14:34-35] For the whole text, with this sentence nearly half way down page 2:
http://womeninthechurch.co.uk/wp-conten ... Kovacs.pdf
Two questions:
1) Does ἁπλῶς belong to the second clause or the third one?
2) Does ἀλλά cause a break from the preceding negative so that one should consider reading οὐδέ adverbially as 'not even'?
'Clearly I do not permit a woman to teach nor yet to exercise authority over a man.'
'I do not permit a woman to teach, nor, clearly, even to exercise authority over a man.'
are a couple of renderings I have considered.
In both cases in the New Testament where ἀλλ’ οὐδὲ follows a negative, it starts a new sentence, at least in the editions I have seen. In the first case, οὐδὲ is always treated as a coordinating conjunction in all the English translations I have seen, in the second case always adverbially:
καὶ ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐνώπιον ὑμῶν ἀνακρίνας οὐθὲν εὗρον ἐν τῷ ἀνθρώπῳ τούτῳ αἴτιον ὧν κατηγορεῖτε κατ’ αὐτοῦ. ἀλλ’ οὐδὲ Ἡρῴδης, ἀνέπεμψεν γὰρ αὐτὸν πρὸς ἡμᾶς· [Luke 23:14b - 15a]
'No, nor has Herod' [NASB]; 'no, nor yet' [ASV]; 'Neither' [ESV]; 'But neither' [Lexham]; 'no, neither' [NKJV].
γάλα ὑμᾶς ἐπότισα, οὐ βρῶμα, οὔπω γὰρ ἐδύνασθε. ἀλλ’ οὐδὲ ἔτι νῦν δύνασθε, [1 Corinthians 3:2]
Indeed, even now you are not yet able, [NASB]; 'nay, not even' [ASV]; 'and even now you are not' [ESV]; 'But now you are still not' [Lexham]; 'Indeed, you are still not' [NIV].
Likewise, BDAG classes Luke 23 under 'also not, not either, neither' and 1 Cor 3 under 'not even'. On the other hand, Meyer and Starbuck (in Oosterzee) have 'not even Herod', finding reasons why he might be expected to find fault in Jesus more than Pilate would. In 1 Cor 3, 'not even' is easier because 'now' they might be expected to be ready for solid food more than before.
Are both options open grammatically? And does the punctuation make a difference in the Origen text? Finally, what if anything is Origen communicating when he inserts ἁπλῶς ἀλλ’ into his citation of 1 Timothy 2:12?
Andrew
[Origen, Commentary on 1 Corinthians 14:34-35] For the whole text, with this sentence nearly half way down page 2:
http://womeninthechurch.co.uk/wp-conten ... Kovacs.pdf
Two questions:
1) Does ἁπλῶς belong to the second clause or the third one?
2) Does ἀλλά cause a break from the preceding negative so that one should consider reading οὐδέ adverbially as 'not even'?
'Clearly I do not permit a woman to teach nor yet to exercise authority over a man.'
'I do not permit a woman to teach, nor, clearly, even to exercise authority over a man.'
are a couple of renderings I have considered.
In both cases in the New Testament where ἀλλ’ οὐδὲ follows a negative, it starts a new sentence, at least in the editions I have seen. In the first case, οὐδὲ is always treated as a coordinating conjunction in all the English translations I have seen, in the second case always adverbially:
καὶ ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐνώπιον ὑμῶν ἀνακρίνας οὐθὲν εὗρον ἐν τῷ ἀνθρώπῳ τούτῳ αἴτιον ὧν κατηγορεῖτε κατ’ αὐτοῦ. ἀλλ’ οὐδὲ Ἡρῴδης, ἀνέπεμψεν γὰρ αὐτὸν πρὸς ἡμᾶς· [Luke 23:14b - 15a]
'No, nor has Herod' [NASB]; 'no, nor yet' [ASV]; 'Neither' [ESV]; 'But neither' [Lexham]; 'no, neither' [NKJV].
γάλα ὑμᾶς ἐπότισα, οὐ βρῶμα, οὔπω γὰρ ἐδύνασθε. ἀλλ’ οὐδὲ ἔτι νῦν δύνασθε, [1 Corinthians 3:2]
Indeed, even now you are not yet able, [NASB]; 'nay, not even' [ASV]; 'and even now you are not' [ESV]; 'But now you are still not' [Lexham]; 'Indeed, you are still not' [NIV].
Likewise, BDAG classes Luke 23 under 'also not, not either, neither' and 1 Cor 3 under 'not even'. On the other hand, Meyer and Starbuck (in Oosterzee) have 'not even Herod', finding reasons why he might be expected to find fault in Jesus more than Pilate would. In 1 Cor 3, 'not even' is easier because 'now' they might be expected to be ready for solid food more than before.
Are both options open grammatically? And does the punctuation make a difference in the Origen text? Finally, what if anything is Origen communicating when he inserts ἁπλῶς ἀλλ’ into his citation of 1 Timothy 2:12?
Andrew