Difficult sentence in Chrysostom

Difficult sentence in Chrysostom

Postby Charlie Johnson » July 17th, 2011, 8:04 pm

The following is from PG 61:615. Chrysostom is commenting on Paul's use of prepositions in the introduction (προοιμιον) to Galatians. In particular, he's carrying on an anti-Arian polemic.

Εἰ μὲν γὰρ καθ᾿ ἑαυτὸ τοῦ Πατρὸς μνημονεύσας εἶπε τὸ, Δι᾿ οὗ, ἴσως ἂν καὶ ἐσοφίσαντο, λέγοντες ἁρμόζειν τῷ Πατρὶ τὸ, Δι᾿ οὗ, τῷ τὰ ἔργα τοῦ Υἱοῦ εἰς αὐτὸν ἀναφέρεσθαι· νῦν δὲ τοῦ Υἱοῦ μνημονεύσας ὁμοῦ καὶ τοῦ Πατρός, καὶ κοινῇ θεὶς τὴν λέξιν, οὐκέτι τὸν λόγον τοῦτον χώραν ἀφίησιν ἔχειν.

I get the general sense of the sentence, that because Paul uses δια with both the Father and the Son rather than just with the Son, there's no room to assert that the works of the Son should be referred to the Father (thus implying the Son's inferiority).

I still have a number of questions.

1) What is the meaning of ἁρμόζειν in this passage?

2) What is the structure of the section λέγοντες ... ἀναφέρεσθαι?

3) What is the structure of the section οὐκέτι ... ἔχειν?
Charlie Johnson
 
Posts: 32
Joined: June 1st, 2011, 6:44 am

Re: Difficult sentence in Chrysostom

Postby James Ernest » July 18th, 2011, 8:21 am

1. They would say that the δι ου and θεος go together, are a pair, such that one is proper to the other.
2. The tricky bit is the second τω. I think it functions a a relative pronoun, whereby. So λέγοντας is followed in indirect discourse by two "clauses," one main (they would say that "δι ου" matches up with ο θεος), the other relative (whereby [meaning either by virtue of δι ου or, more likely, by virtue of the connection between δι ου and ο θεος] the works of the son are referred or attributed to the father.
-------------------------------------------
James D. Ernest, PhD
Senior Acquisitions Editor
Baker Academic and Brazos Press
Grand Rapids, MI
-------------------------------------------
James Ernest
 
Posts: 38
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:26 pm

Re: Difficult sentence in Chrysostom

Postby James Ernest » July 18th, 2011, 8:29 am

3. The subject of αφιησι is the same as the subject of είπε, presumably either the apostle or the scripture. It (or he) no longer leaves room for this contention (no longer permits this argument to have room).
-------------------------------------------
James D. Ernest, PhD
Senior Acquisitions Editor
Baker Academic and Brazos Press
Grand Rapids, MI
-------------------------------------------
James Ernest
 
Posts: 38
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:26 pm

Re: Difficult sentence in Chrysostom

Postby cwconrad » July 18th, 2011, 8:47 am

James Ernest wrote:2. The tricky bit is the second τω. I think it functions a a relative pronoun, whereby. So λέγοντας is followed in indirect discourse by two "clauses," one main (they would say that "δι ου" matches up with ο θεος), the other relative (whereby [meaning either by virtue of δι ου or, more likely, by virtue of the connection between δι ου and ο θεος] the works of the son are referred or attributed to the father.


I don't think that will work. I think that the second τῷ introduces an articular infinitive phrase that is a substantival form of a clause offering an explanation for the suitability of Δι’ οὗ to τῷ Πατρὶ.

τῷ τὰ ἔργα τοῦ Υἱοῦ εἰς αὐτὸν ἀναφέρεσθαι:

(a) τὰ ἔργα τοῦ Υἱοῦ is the subject of ἀναφέρεσθαι and εἰς αὐτὸν completes the clause. I take it that αὐτὸν = τὸν Πατέρα
(b) "by making the works of the Son refer back to (the Father)."
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
… ἐπειδὴ καὶ τὸν οἶνον ἠξίους
πίνειν, συνεκποτέ’ ἐστί σοι καὶ τὴν τρύγα Aristophanes, Plutus 1085
cwconrad
 
Posts: 1253
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:52 pm
Location: Burnsville, NC 28714

Re: Difficult sentence in Chrysostom

Postby Charlie Johnson » July 18th, 2011, 12:09 pm

Thanks, both of you. My general sense so far is that outside the NT, infinitives have a much broader range of usage. I never thought to connect the τῳ to the infinitive, but once pointed out, it seems perfectly natural.

Let me see if I'm getting the last part (#3) right.

The whole phrase τὸν λόγον τοῦτον χώραν ... ἔχειν is the object of ἀφίησιν.

τὸν λόγον τοῦτον is the AGR of ἔχειν.

χώραν is the object of ἔχειν.

Close?
Charlie Johnson
 
Posts: 32
Joined: June 1st, 2011, 6:44 am

Re: Difficult sentence in Chrysostom

Postby James Ernest » July 20th, 2011, 10:09 am

Thanks, Carl. Your way on 2 doesn't require cheating with regard to that τῷ, but it didn't occur to me at all. How usual is this usage without a preposition (maybe εν τω . . . αναφερεσθαι) ?
-------------------------------------------
James D. Ernest, PhD
Senior Acquisitions Editor
Baker Academic and Brazos Press
Grand Rapids, MI
-------------------------------------------
James Ernest
 
Posts: 38
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:26 pm

Re: Difficult sentence in Chrysostom

Postby cwconrad » July 20th, 2011, 10:30 am

James Ernest wrote:Thanks, Carl. Your way on 2 doesn't require cheating with regard to that τῷ, but it didn't occur to me at all. How usual is this usage without a preposition (maybe εν τω . . . αναφερεσθαι) ?


How usual? I would think that would depend on whether the author is deliberately writing Attic Greek. Isn't that the case with Chrysostom? I don't really know, but I think that the usage of ἐν with an instrumental dative is probably less common in literary Greek even in the NT era. Cf. BDAG s.v. ἐν 5.:

5. marker introducing means or instrument, with, a construction that begins w. Homer (many examples of instrumental ἐν in Radermacher’s edition of Ps.-Demetr., Eloc. p. 100; Reader, Polemo p. 258) but whose wide currency in our lit. is partly caused by the infl. of the LXX, and its similarity to the Hebr. constr. w. בְּ (B-D-F §219; Mlt. 104; Mlt-H. 463f; s. esp. M-M p. 210).
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
… ἐπειδὴ καὶ τὸν οἶνον ἠξίους
πίνειν, συνεκποτέ’ ἐστί σοι καὶ τὴν τρύγα Aristophanes, Plutus 1085
cwconrad
 
Posts: 1253
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:52 pm
Location: Burnsville, NC 28714

Re: Difficult sentence in Chrysostom

Postby Charlie Johnson » July 20th, 2011, 11:16 am

From Burton's Moods and Tenses

396. The Infinitive with τῷ. The Infinitive with the article τῷ is used in classical Greek to express cause, manner, means. In the New Testament it is used to express cause. Its only other use is after the preposition ἐν. HA. 959; G. 1547.

2 Cor 2:13; τῷ μὴ εὑρεῖν με Τίτον τὸν ἀδελφόν μου, because I found not Titus my brother.


After a cursory search, I actually didn't find any other NT examples of this usage.
Charlie Johnson
 
Posts: 32
Joined: June 1st, 2011, 6:44 am


Return to Church Fathers and Patristic Greek Texts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron