forms of hYFISTHMI

forms of hYFISTHMI

Postby James Ernest » October 16th, 2011, 4:58 pm

Ephiphanius quotes Aetius thus:

Εἰ δὲ αὐτὸς ἑαυτῷ τὸ εἶναι μὴ παρέσχεν, οὐ διὰ τὸ ἀσθενὲς τῆς φύσεως, ἀλλὰ διὰ τὸ ὑπερβεβηκέναι πᾶσαν αἰτίαν, πόθεν ἄν τις τὴν ὑποστᾶσαν πρὸς τὴν ὑποστήσασαν φύσιν τὸ ἀπαράλλακτον εἰς οὐσίαν ἔχειν συγχωρήσειεν, οὐ προσιεμένης τῆς τοιαύτης ὑποστάσεως.

I think I've got it, just looking for a little reassurance regarding the participles:

ὑποστᾶσαν - second aorist participle, so intransitive
ὑποστήσασαν - first aorist participle, so transitive

Right?

--Aetius, is arguing against the Nicene homousion. Wickham translates this passage: "If he did not confer existence on himself (not because of ineffectiveness of nature but by virtue of his complete transcendence of cause) how could anyone grant that the nature which is posited is indistinguisable in essence from the nature which posited it, when such a substance does not admit of origination?
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Re: forms of hYFISTHMI

Postby cwconrad » October 16th, 2011, 5:23 pm

Εἰ δὲ αὐτὸς ἑαυτῷ τὸ εἶναι μὴ παρέσχεν, οὐ διὰ τὸ ἀσθενὲς τῆς φύσεως, ἀλλὰ διὰ τὸ ὑπερβεβηκέναι πᾶσαν αἰτίαν, πόθεν ἄν τις τὴν ὑποστᾶσαν πρὸς τὴν ὑποστήσασαν φύσιν τὸ ἀπαράλλακτον εἰς οὐσίαν ἔχειν συγχωρήσειεν, οὐ προσιεμένης τῆς τοιαύτης ὑποστάσεως.

I think I've got it, just looking for a little reassurance regarding the participles:

ὑποστᾶσαν - second aorist participle, so intransitive
ὑποστήσασαν - first aorist participle, so transitive


Yes; as a further clarification I'd say that ὑποστᾶσαν is the 2nd aor. ptc. of ὑφίσταμαι, while ὑποστήσασαν is the 1st aor. ptc. of ὑφίστημι, both forms of course being fem. sg. acc. in agreement with φύσιν.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
… ἐπειδὴ καὶ τὸν οἶνον ἠξίους
πίνειν, συνεκποτέ’ ἐστί σοι καὶ τὴν τρύγα Aristophanes, Plutus 1085
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Re: forms of hYFISTHMI

Postby James Ernest » October 16th, 2011, 6:43 pm

Thanks, Carl, but now I might need a little more help here . . .

I'd say that ὑποστᾶσαν is the 2nd aor. ptc. of ὑφίσταμαι, while ὑποστήσασαν is the 1st aor. ptc. of ὑφίστημι


I believe ὑφίσταμαι is the middle/passive form of ὑφίστημι--right? So is ὑποστᾶσαν a middle/passive participle?
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Re: forms of hYFISTHMI

Postby cwconrad » October 16th, 2011, 7:23 pm

James Ernest wrote:Thanks, Carl, but now I might need a little more help here . . .

I'd say that ὑποστᾶσαν is the 2nd aor. ptc. of ὑφίσταμαι, while ὑποστήσασαν is the 1st aor. ptc. of ὑφίστημι


I believe ὑφίσταμαι is the middle/passive form of ὑφίστημι--right? So is ὑποστᾶσαν a middle/passive participle?


If I might put it thus, ὑποστᾶσαν is substantially "a middle/passive participle." Formally it is active -- it has active endings -- as do also the passive forms in -θη- and -η-. The curious fact is that in terms of formation, there is no difference whatsoever between the "active" second-aorist forms in -η- and the second "passive" forms in -η-. I've seen at least one grammar refer to forms such as ἔστην functioning as the aorist of ἵσταμαι as "quasi-passive." As you rightly noted, ὑποστᾶσαν is intransitive; its present-tense correlative form would surely be ἱσταμένην.

As Aristotle in the Ethica noted that there are character traits that don't have names in Greek to designate them -- "but everyone knows what they are," so we have these anomalies in Greek verbs such as present-tense πείθομαι corresponding to a perfect tense πέποιθα or present-tense ἐγείρομαι corresponding to a perfect-tense ἐγρήγορα and an aorist ἠγέρθην. Do we label these forms in terms of their semantic force or in terms of their morphology?
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
… ἐπειδὴ καὶ τὸν οἶνον ἠξίους
πίνειν, συνεκποτέ’ ἐστί σοι καὶ τὴν τρύγα Aristophanes, Plutus 1085
cwconrad
 
Posts: 1252
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:52 pm
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Re: forms of hYFISTHMI

Postby James Ernest » October 16th, 2011, 8:33 pm

OK, thanks. This makes sense to me. My initial doubletake in this passage was caused by my sense that what was wanted where I saw ὑποστᾶσαν was a passive form (υποσταθεντα, I guess).

Do we label these forms in terms of their semantic force or in terms of their morphology?


Yes. ;)

Or maybe No--I usually weasel out of these pickles by declining to label at all.
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James D. Ernest, PhD
Senior Acquisitions Editor
Baker Academic and Brazos Press
Grand Rapids, MI
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Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:26 pm

Re: forms of hYFISTHMI

Postby cwconrad » October 17th, 2011, 6:49 am

James Ernest wrote:OK, thanks. This makes sense to me. My initial doubletake in this passage was caused by my sense that what was wanted where I saw ὑποστᾶσαν was a passive form (υποσταθεντα, I guess).


So you're reviewing the Arian controversy in the extant documents -- that must be interesting. My guess is that Aetius was writing Attic dialect rather than Koine; otherwise you might in fact have seen the form ὑποσταθεῖσαν, which would simply be a later form and would mean the same thing as ὑποσταθεῖσαν. This is actually an interesting verb with a sizable entry in LSJ, which describes the usage in question with the standard lexicographical "deponent" gobbledygook, as
Pass., with aor. 2 and pf. Act. (Hom. uses only aor. 2):— stand under as a support, ὑπεστᾶσι κολοσσοὶ . . τῇ αὐλῇ Hdt.2.153; τοὺς σταυροὺς τοὺς ὑπεστεῶτας τοῖσι ἰκρίοισι Id.5.16; τὸ ὑφεστὸς τῷ βάρει Arist.IA708b31; v. supr. A. 1.1.


BDAG on the other hand refers to it simply as a middle-voice usage:
2. to become a reality, take (structured) shape mid., of a thousand-year reign of Christ on earth: σωματικῶς τῆς Χριστοῦ βασιλείας . . . ὑποστησομένης the kingdom of Christ assuming physical presence/structure (on this earth) Papias (2:12).—Sv.


I think this really is a middle-voice usage. LSJ's lengthy and interesting entry displays a wide range of usages of this verb in its active and middle forms.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
… ἐπειδὴ καὶ τὸν οἶνον ἠξίους
πίνειν, συνεκποτέ’ ἐστί σοι καὶ τὴν τρύγα Aristophanes, Plutus 1085
cwconrad
 
Posts: 1252
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:52 pm
Location: Burnsville, NC 28714


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