pronouncing κηρύξω

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pronouncing κηρύξω

Postby GlennDean » July 30th, 2012, 9:11 pm

Hi:

Is there an "s" sound in κηρύξω? Is it pronounced "kay reik so"?

I would have thought it would be pronounced "kay reik o" (i.e. no "s" sound on the third syllable).

Another question I have on κηρύξω is how the word is broken up - I would have thought one would break it up as

κη ρύ ξω (consonant-vowel consonant-vowel consonant-vowel)

but it seems the ξ is part of the second syllable.

I'm sure that the ξ is coming from γσ has something to do with why I'm hearing an "s" on the last syllable.

Glenn
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Re: pronouncing κηρύξω

Postby Stephen Carlson » July 30th, 2012, 9:31 pm

This letter is a compound letter, ξ = κ + σ. So the s-sound is definitely there. The word is divided as you had it: κη-ρύ-ξω.
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Re: pronouncing κηρύξω

Postby GlennDean » July 30th, 2012, 9:55 pm

Thanxs for the info Stephen.

So it almost seems like the syllabification of the word has the "original" letters:

κηρύξω is the future tense: κηρύγ + σ + ω (γ + σ => ξ), but when you syllabify you break it down as

κη-ρύγ-σω (I'm pretty sure the consonant cluster γσ cannot be pronounced together which is why the γ goes with the 2nd syllable???)
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Re: pronouncing κηρύξω

Postby Louis L Sorenson » July 30th, 2012, 10:06 pm

The sound γ loses its voicing before ς = [ks] = ξ, as in fox, box, etc. ξ is a consonant cluster that can begin a word, so it falls under item b below. See http://perseus.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.9:1.NewPerseusMonographs section §140.

Here are Smyth's rules:

In pronouncing Greek words and in writing (at the end of the line) the rules commonly observed are these:

a. A single consonant standing between two vowels in one word belongs with the second vowel: ἄ-γω, σο-φί-ζω.

b. Any group of consonants that can begin a word, and a group formed by a stop with μ or ν, and by μν, belongs with the second vowel: τύ-πτω, ὄ-γδοος, ἄ-στρον, ἔ-χθος; πρᾶ-γμα, ἔ-θνος, λί-μνη.

c. A group of consonants that cannot begin a word is divided between two syllables: ἄν-θος, ἐλ-πίς, ἔρ-γμα. Doubled consonants are divided: θάλατ-τα.

d. Compounds divide at the point of union: εἰς-φέρω, προς-φέρω; ἀν-άγω, εἰσάγω, συν-έχω. (But the ancients often wrote ἀ-νάγω, εἰ-σάγω, προ-σελθεῖν, ἐ-ξάγω, δυ-σάρεστος.)

e. ς, when followed by one or more consonants, is either attached to the preceding vowel (ἄ-ρις-τος), or, with the consonant, begins the following syllable (ἄ-ρι-στος). (The ancients were not consistent, and there is evidence for the pronunciation ἄ-ρις-στος.)

f. The ancients divided ἐκ τούτου as ἐ-κ τού-του. This practice is now abandoned.
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Re: pronouncing κηρύξω

Postby Stephen Carlson » July 30th, 2012, 10:21 pm

GlennDean wrote:So it almost seems like the syllabification of the word has the "original" letters:

κηρύξω is the future tense: κηρύγ + σ + ω (γ + σ => ξ), but when you syllabify you break it down as

κη-ρύγ-σω (I'm pretty sure the consonant cluster γσ cannot be pronounced together which is why the γ goes with the 2nd syllable???)


OK, I've got to clarify a couple points. There's no original gamma in κηρύσσω. It was originally *κηρύκ-ι-ω, with a consonantal iota present-stem affix. The future is *κηρύκ-σ-ω > κηρύξω. (The gamma in κήρυγμα is due to a voicing of the original κ next to the voiced μ.)

As for syllabification, a rule of thumb is that Greek won't break up consonant clusters if they can begin a word (see rule b that Louis quoted). Since ξ can begin a word, a syllable can begin with ξ.
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Re: pronouncing κηρύξω

Postby GlennDean » July 30th, 2012, 11:06 pm

I definitely have trouble with ξ.

For example how about λέξεις. According to Smyth's rules (which pretty much agrees with the rules Mounce lists on p.17 of Basics of Biblical Greek (Ed 2) ), we would break that into

λέ-ξεις

but yet when I hear the word it sounds like the pronunciation is "lex-eis" (i.e. the ξ is with the first syllable).

Another example I'm working on is ὤρυξας (which is very similar to κηρύξω in that the ξ is coming from a square-of-stop and a σ).
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Re: pronouncing κηρύξω

Postby klriley » July 31st, 2012, 2:18 am

The question is 'who are you listening to?'. We all tend to pronounce Greek in a way influenced by our first language. If you listen to Modern Greeks pronouncing Greek, λέ-ξεις and κη-ρύ-ξω is exactly how they pronounce it. I am not sure where you got "kay reik so" for κηρύξω, unless by 'reik' you mean 'reek'. In Classical and Koiné Greek 'υ' was pronounces as German ü or french 'u' in 'tu', and in Modern Greek as 'ee'.
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Re: pronouncing κηρύξω

Postby GlennDean » July 31st, 2012, 9:53 am

klriley wrote:The question is 'who are you listening to?'. We all tend to pronounce Greek in a way influenced by our first language. If you listen to Modern Greeks pronouncing Greek, λέ-ξεις and κη-ρύ-ξω is exactly how they pronounce it. I am not sure where you got "kay reik so" for κηρύξω, unless by 'reik' you mean 'reek'. In Classical and Koiné Greek 'υ' was pronounces as German ü or french 'u' in 'tu', and in Modern Greek as 'ee'.


I unfortunately don't speak German nor French - my perspective is from an English background. I'm getting "kay reik so" as if writing down what I'm hearing as if it were an English word (so the approximation is probably not so good).

I'm going thru the "Living Koine Greek" books by Dr. Buth - if anyone else has the books I'm getting these words from

κηρύξω - Book 2A, μάθημα β, track 8
λέξεις - Book 2A, μάθημα ά, track 23
ὤρυξας - Book 2A, μάθημα ά, track 25

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Re: pronouncing κηρύξω

Postby Jonathan Robie » July 31st, 2012, 11:08 am

GlennDean wrote:I unfortunately don't speak German nor French - my perspective is from an English background. I'm getting "kay reik so" as if writing down what I'm hearing as if it were an English word (so the approximation is probably not so good).


Make your tongue say "ee", and make your lips say "oo".

See if this video helps.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Re: pronouncing κηρύξω

Postby GlennDean » July 31st, 2012, 11:35 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:Make your tongue say "ee", and make your lips say "oo".

See if this video helps.


Thanxs - that does help!
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