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Re: Poiein Indicative Paradigm

Posted: September 20th, 2015, 6:07 pm
by Stephen Carlson
RandallButh wrote:
(Also, am I right in assuming that if a verb has the I Aor Act, it will also have I Aor Mid, I Aor Pas, etc.? Like ποιειν takes the I Aor Act form, so I assumed that means it should take the I Future Pas as well)
That is a problem.

Verbs are idiomatic in their choice of mood διάθεσις. That is why the Morphologia tables are specific to mood for each verb.
Some moods are not used by a verb, or very rarely, and others will skew the meaning enough between moods to cause a learner to miscommunicate.
Others will shift moods in different tenses.

Re: Poiein Indicative Paradigm

Posted: September 21st, 2015, 1:21 am
by RandallButh
Hey nice call and head's up, Stephen, and talk about a brain "event", a senior moment.

I meant διάθεσις of course, more commonly called 'disposition' (note the etymology: 'place-through') and VOICE in English grammar. Apparently, once the brain grabbed the English word "mood, (related to 'disposition')" it kept it throughout the following sentences and treated it as if it were διαθεσις.
Who would have thought such tricks would happen with streams of words coming out of a mouth or on "paper"? But there it is [was], documented.

So read the above note on verb morphology as various choices of verbal voice.

PS: I have gone back and edited the post, changing 'mood' to 'voice' so that readers are not confused. Getting the Greek correct, even through the guise of English, is more important than documenting psychological anomalies, interesting as they are.

Re: Poiein Indicative Paradigm

Posted: September 21st, 2015, 3:33 am
by Paul-Nitz
RandallButh wrote:διάθεσις of course, more commonly called 'disposition' (note the etymology: 'place-through') and VOICE in English grammar
ὦ πρεσβύτερε διδάσκαλε,
I had never thought about the etymology of διάθεσις - "place through." I like that very much. I tend to use Greek grammatical terms sparingly, but some I find indispensable. I use παρατατική (ὄψις) frequently because it is so much better than "present aspect" (ugh). I think I'll start to use διάθεσις more consistently. I don't really have a problem with the term "voice," but I suppose it brings to mind a very binary option to English learners.

My students don't have quite the same problem with concept of διαθεσις since my central African students have many “voices” in their mother-tongues. In Chichewa, there are several voice variations. In fact we can overlay more than one voice variation on a single verb.

UNMARKED / agula, he buys
PASSIVE -dwa / agul-idwa, he is bought
MIDDLE -ra / agul-ira, he buys for (on behalf of someone)
CAUSATIVE -tsa / agul-itsa, he sells (causes buying)
CAUS/PASS -ts- & -dwa / agul-its-idwa, he was bought
CAUS/MIDD -tsa & -ra / agul-its-ira, he sells for (on behalf of someone)
CAUS/PASS/MIDD -tsa & -dwa & -ra / chigul-its-idw-ira, it is sold for (on behalf of someone)
TENDENCY-ABILITY -ka / chigul-ika, it is buyable (it sells well)

Re: Poiein Indicative Paradigm

Posted: September 21st, 2015, 4:02 am
by RandallButh
It's nice to see your language with its recognizable Bantu morphological shifts compared to Swahili.