Words with prepositions

How can I best learn new vocabulary items? What aids are there and what pitfalls should be avoided? How does a beginner learn to use a lexicon?
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Kamil Bijata
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Joined: April 13th, 2015, 11:56 am

Words with prepositions

Post by Kamil Bijata » April 18th, 2015, 6:16 am

I'm not even sure how to describe the problem which I have...
Generally - in Swetnam textbook I found many words, that are made by connection of preposition and word
(for example:
ἐνέχω [ἐν + ἔχω] I am hostile to [with dative]; passive: I am subject to.
ἐπέχω [ἐπί + ἔχω]] transitive: I hold firmly; intransitive: I pay attention to [with dative]; I stay.
ἔχω I have.
κατέχω [κατά + ἔχω] transitive: I hold fast; I possess; I prevent; intransitive: I head toward.
μετέχω [μετά + ἔχω] I have a share in [with genitive or a preposition governing genitive].
προσέχω [πρός + ἔχω] I pay attention to, I give myself to [with accusative or dative]; I watch out for [with ἀπό plus genitive].
συνέχω [σύν + ἔχω] I surround.
ὑπερέχω [ὑπέρ + ἔχω] I surpass.)

I tried to learn it, but i stuck... my method was to add this words to Anki as flashcards, but main problem is when I have front-poland, back-greek... too many words seems to me as similar (for example: εἰσέρχομαι [εἰς + ἔρχομαι]); προσέρχομαι [πρός + ἔρχομαι]; also many word which means "to order")
Do you have any methods, tables, or anything that may help how to learn it?
Thank for a help
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: Words with prepositions

Post by Jonathan Robie » April 18th, 2015, 10:15 am

I find it really helpful to search for sentences that illustrate each case, perhaps use each word as a heading, list the sentences that use them, then take the time to really understand each sentence. For me, at least, learning language in context is much, much more efficient than memorizing individual words on flashcards. Of course, you can put complete sentences on flashcards too if you want to use Anki.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Shirley Rollinson
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Re: Words with prepositions

Post by Shirley Rollinson » April 19th, 2015, 8:09 pm

Kamil Bijata wrote:I'm not even sure how to describe the problem which I have...
Generally - in Swetnam textbook I found many words, that are made by connection of preposition and word
(for example:
ἐνέχω [ἐν + ἔχω] I am hostile to [with dative]; passive: I am subject to.
ἐπέχω [ἐπί + ἔχω]] transitive: I hold firmly; intransitive: I pay attention to [with dative]; I stay.
ἔχω I have.
κατέχω [κατά + ἔχω] transitive: I hold fast; I possess; I prevent; intransitive: I head toward.
μετέχω [μετά + ἔχω] I have a share in [with genitive or a preposition governing genitive].
προσέχω [πρός + ἔχω] I pay attention to, I give myself to [with accusative or dative]; I watch out for [with ἀπό plus genitive].
συνέχω [σύν + ἔχω] I surround.
ὑπερέχω [ὑπέρ + ἔχω] I surpass.)

I tried to learn it, but i stuck... my method was to add this words to Anki as flashcards, but main problem is when I have front-poland, back-greek... too many words seems to me as similar (for example: εἰσέρχομαι [εἰς + ἔρχομαι]); προσέρχομαι [πρός + ἔρχομαι]; also many word which means "to order")
Do you have any methods, tables, or anything that may help how to learn it?
Thank for a help
there are some diagrams on the InterNet that help to show the directions for prepostions :
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/eg ... reek10.htm
http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-foru ... =2&t=61736
https://greek2u.wordpress.com/tag/greek ... s-diagram/
http://www.kotiposti.net/~raamattu/jt/um/virheet/ohje/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/189291990562587188/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/159103799308301552/
http://inthesaltshaker.com/drills/preposit.htm
http://www.galaxie.com/article/cenq11-3-05
http://www.biblefood.com/prep2.html

Also, there's a textbook page, with the prepositions in context (see section 17.6)
at http://www.drshirley.org/greek/textbook ... itions.pdf

Welcome to B-Greek,
Shirley Rollinson
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: Words with prepositions

Post by Stephen Hughes » April 21st, 2015, 11:34 am

Kamil Bijata wrote:I'm not even sure how to describe the problem which I have...
...
I tried to learn it, but i stuck... my method was to add this words to Anki as flashcards, but main problem is when I have front-poland, back-greek... too many words seems to me as similar
...
Do you have any methods, tables, or anything that may help how to learn it?
Whichever way you try to structure it, learning the usage of prepositions and verbs with prefixed prepositions is the most difficult part of vocabulary acquisition in studying Greek.

A lot of it is idiomatic and it needs to learnt in complete "usage chunks" or whole idioms. Look at this phrase that I came across today:
Polybius, [i]Histories[/i], 5,1,9 wrote:καὶ πάντων τῶν γεγονότων ἀναθεὶς τὴν αἰτίαν ἐπὶ τὸν Ἀπελλῆν,
and laying the blame for all that had happened on Apelles,
The genitive of the thing blamed for goes with the αἰτία "blame", the accusative and the ἐπί + accusative go with ἀναθεῖναι "attribute".

In the model where language is learnt (esp. vocabulary is memorised) word-by-word, prepositions are really hard to master and verbs with suffixed prepositions seem so similar that they seem confusing - as you are finding.

Learning whole structures (in the abstract) as your textbook is suggesting could work, or finding those whole structures in examples as Jonathan is saying will probably do you more good than concentrating just on finding the right word that can be the best translation - but having that single word translation is great too. I.e. they require a hybrid learning strategy - somewhere between rote-learning sentences (or sentence patterns) and rote-learning single-word glosses.
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(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Wes Wood
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Re: Words with prepositions

Post by Wes Wood » April 21st, 2015, 5:41 pm

I believe you have described your problem and the feeling of despair that is its companion quite well. I have felt the same way many times. In fact, the closest I came to quitting Greek was studying the preposition chapter in Mounce!
Recently, I have been studying through the JACT Reading Greek series with its accompanying audio cd. I have been listening to each section until I can just about quote them, and I have found it to be tremendously helpful. It has helped me to more easily remember the appropriate cases for both the verbs and the prepositions, and I feel like I am able to recall and inflect new vocabulary much more easily. I am not plugging JACT; I don't think you will be disappointed if you use some other audio system (like the programs of Dr. Buth or Cristophe Rico) to supplement your current studies. I just haven't used those myself. (For what it is worth, though, I would get both of those as well if I could afford them.) Good luck with your continuing studies.
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Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ

Kamil Bijata
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Re: Words with prepositions

Post by Kamil Bijata » April 22nd, 2015, 1:27 pm

Shirley Rollinson: thanks a lot, very helpful resources, especially this textbook by You :) many examples and exercise to do inside it.
Jonathan Robie wrote:I find it really helpful to search for sentences that illustrate each case, perhaps use each word as a heading, list the sentences that use them, then take the time to really understand each sentence. For me, at least, learning language in context is much, much more efficient than memorizing individual words on flashcards. Of course, you can put complete sentences on flashcards too if you want to use Anki.
I try to put some sentences on Anki flashcards. But, I wonder about one thing... Isn't it like I memorize the context, by "translating in my mind from polish to english" more then memorize word...? Should I on some stage of learning erase these sentences, to try if I can answer to "pure" word?
Wes Wood wrote:Recently, I have been studying through the JACT Reading Greek series with its accompanying audio cd. I have been listening to each section until I can just about quote them, and I have found it to be tremendously helpful. It has helped me to more easily remember the appropriate cases for both the verbs and the prepositions, and I feel like I am able to recall and inflect new vocabulary much more easily. I am not plugging JACT; I don't think you will be disappointed if you use some other audio system (like the programs of Dr. Buth or Cristophe Rico) to supplement your current studies. I just haven't used those myself. (For what it is worth, though, I would get both of those as well if I could afford them.) Good luck with your continuing studies.
Hmm... thanks for advice... I will look on this courses with audio included.
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: Words with prepositions

Post by Jonathan Robie » April 22nd, 2015, 4:53 pm

Kamil Bijata wrote:
Jonathan Robie wrote:I find it really helpful to search for sentences that illustrate each case, perhaps use each word as a heading, list the sentences that use them, then take the time to really understand each sentence. For me, at least, learning language in context is much, much more efficient than memorizing individual words on flashcards. Of course, you can put complete sentences on flashcards too if you want to use Anki.
I try to put some sentences on Anki flashcards. But, I wonder about one thing... Isn't it like I memorize the context, by "translating in my mind from polish to english" more then memorize word...? Should I on some stage of learning erase these sentences, to try if I can answer to "pure" word?
I don't think that's a problem. Just as dictionaries use sample sentences to explain the meaning of a word, sample sentences you remember help you retain the meaning of a word as you memorize.

But try it, see if you like the results.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Jacob Rhoden
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Re: Words with prepositions

Post by Jacob Rhoden » April 23rd, 2015, 1:37 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:I find it really helpful to search for sentences that illustrate each case, perhaps use each word as a heading, list the sentences that use them, then take the time to really understand each sentence. For me, at least, learning language in context is much, much more efficient than memorizing individual words on flashcards. Of course, you can put complete sentences on flashcards too if you want to use Anki.
What he said. :D

That is exactly what I did, it really helps. The only catch is, it can be quite difficult to search the NT to find relatively comprehensible/accessible sentences that can demonstrate these words in context. Prepositions were chapter 4 of the textbook I am using, so it made finding sentences even more difficult. Which is why companion sentences for these words using beginner vocab would be extremely useful.
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