Athenaze

I don't understand what my textbook is saying about X. Can someone help me?

Re: Athenaze

Postby Mark Trzasko » January 3rd, 2012, 9:07 pm

Thanks Jason
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Re: Athenaze

Postby Mark Trzasko » January 16th, 2012, 2:11 pm

Thanks for the previous help that I've received. In Athenaze on page 63 at the very top, why is "protos" (sorry I don't have the ability to cite it in Greek) shown as an adjective? Shouldn't it be an adverb there answering a "when" question, hence, "proton"? Is it an adjective because the verb is a linking verb? Thanks for any light on this. Mark Trzasko
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Re: Athenaze

Postby Jason Hare » January 17th, 2012, 12:56 am

The sentence in question is:

πρῶτος οὖν πάρεστιν ὁ παῖς, καὶ ἰδού, ὁ μὲν Ἄργος μένει πρὸς τῇ ὁδῷ καὶ ἀγρίως ὑλακτεῖ, καταβαίνει δὲ ἐκ τοῦ ὄρους πρὸς τὸ αὔλιον λύκος μέγας.

I didn't notice this before, but the text introduces πρῶτον as an adverb in 4α and then πρῶτος, -η, -ον as an adjective in 5β.

I would guess that since ἐστίν is the equative verb, we should think of πρῶτος as adjectival, even though παρα- has been added to the verb. I mean, ὁ παῖς is obviously the subject of the sentence, so maybe: "Thus the lad is present first...." Do we normally use adverbs with "is"? We probably shouldn't think of the prefix as an adjective, as we do "present" in English (as opposed to "absent"). So, πρῶτος is modifying the being.

Maybe someone else would have a better explanation. I didn't really think too deeply about this when I first went through Ἀθήναζε.
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Re: Athenaze

Postby David Lim » January 17th, 2012, 3:27 am

Jason Hare wrote:The sentence in question is:

πρῶτος οὖν πάρεστιν ὁ παῖς, καὶ ἰδού, ὁ μὲν Ἄργος μένει πρὸς τῇ ὁδῷ καὶ ἀγρίως ὑλακτεῖ, καταβαίνει δὲ ἐκ τοῦ ὄρους πρὸς τὸ αὔλιον λύκος μέγας.

I didn't notice this before, but the text introduces πρῶτον as an adverb in 4α and then πρῶτος, -η, -ον as an adjective in 5β.

I would guess that since ἐστίν is the equative verb, we should think of πρῶτος as adjectival, even though παρα- has been added to the verb. I mean, ὁ παῖς is obviously the subject of the sentence, so maybe: "Thus the lad is present first...." Do we normally use adverbs with "is"? We probably shouldn't think of the prefix as an adjective, as we do "present" in English (as opposed to "absent"). So, πρῶτος is modifying the being.

Maybe someone else would have a better explanation. I didn't really think too deeply about this when I first went through Ἀθήναζε.


I doubt "παρειμι" can be used as an equative verb like "ειμι", but I think it is simply a normal intransitive verb meaning "be present". Instead, "πρωτος" is a special kind of word that modifies the meaning of the complete clause, though it is declined like an adjective agreeing with the subject. I would say it means "the boy/servant is first to be present", which would generally be said in English as "the boy/servant is present first". I do not think it answers the question of "when he is present" but rather the question of "who was the first to be present". In contrast "πρωτον" (neuter accusative) would be used to specify the time he is present.
δαυιδ λιμ
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Re: Athenaze

Postby cwconrad » January 17th, 2012, 7:50 am

πάρειμι is a stative verb functioning sort of like a perfect tense (e.g. ἥκω, ἔρρω, φθάνω); its sense here is "to have arrived" -- here something like, "The boy is first on the scene." Adjective such as ordinals or temporals can function adverbially with many verbs. See Smyth, §1042:
Several adjectives of time, place, order of succession, etc., are used as predicates where English employs an adverb or a preposition with its case: ἀφικνοῦνται τριταῖοι they arrive on the third day X. A. 5.3.2, κατέβαινον σκοταῖοι they descended in the dark 4. 1. 10. In such cases the adjective is regarded as a quality of the subject; whereas an adverb would regard the manner of the action. ...
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
… ἐπειδὴ καὶ τὸν οἶνον ἠξίους
πίνειν, συνεκποτέ’ ἐστί σοι καὶ τὴν τρύγα Aristophanes, Plutus 1085
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Re: Athenaze

Postby Jason Hare » January 17th, 2012, 10:29 am

See? Much better answers. ;)
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Re: Athenaze

Postby Mark Trzasko » January 18th, 2012, 7:33 am

Thanks to all for the latest help! Mark Trzasko
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Re: Athenaze

Postby Mark Trzasko » July 22nd, 2012, 12:42 pm

Hello. For contract verbs, Athenaze shows the uncontracted as well as the contracted form. Which, if any, is the standard form? Thanks, Mark Trzasko
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Re: Athenaze

Postby Stephen Carlson » July 22nd, 2012, 12:47 pm

Mark Trzasko wrote:Hello. For contract verbs, Athenaze shows the uncontracted as well as the contracted form. Which, if any, is the standard form?


In Attic and Koine, the contracted forms are the standard forms.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D. (Duke)
Post-Doctoral Fellow, Faculty of Theology, Uppsala
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Re: Athenaze

Postby Ken M. Penner » July 22nd, 2012, 3:50 pm

Mark Trzasko wrote:For contract verbs, Athenaze shows the uncontracted as well as the contracted form. Which, if any, is the standard form? Thanks, Mark Trzasko

If you are reading texts, you will find the contracted forms (as Stephen noted). But if you are looking for the meaning of a word, most dictionaries will have the headwords in uncontracted form (first person singular.present indicative).
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St. Francis Xavier University
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