Revelation 11: 3 - καὶ δώσω τοῖς δυσὶν μάρτυσίν μου

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David Lim
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Joined: June 6th, 2011, 6:55 am

Re: The word μάρτυρες not σημεῖα is being used

Post by David Lim » July 10th, 2014, 2:04 am

Stephen Hughes wrote:
David Lim wrote:A closer synonym of "μαρτυς" that could be used for non-people witnesses is "μαρτυριον" or indirectly by "εις μαρτυριον". At least in the LXX+NT I found no instances of "μαρτυς" for a non-person witness. "σημειον" would convey it as more of an observable object, while "μαρτυριον" will convey it as more of something that can express a testimony. Both "μαρτυρες" and "μαρτυρια" can "μαρτυρειν".
Did you find an instance of a μαρτυριον that was not given by a person, angel or God? Could a candelabra or olive tree give a μαρτυριον?

I think like an inanimate equivalent of a μαρτυριον "testimony" is a τεκμήριον "proof", "evidence". Is that a reasonable understanding of mine?
Since we were looking for a synonym of "μαρτυς" (one who testifies), I suggested "μαρτυριον" (something which testifies). I think "μαρτυρια" is the one that is more like "testimony (something that is testified)", whereas "μαρτυριον" is more like "testimony / witness (inanimate)" which tends to be used to refer to inanimate witnesses but can also be used to refer to "μαρτυριας". A candlestick or olive tree can "μαρτυρειν", which is to give a "μαρτυριαν", which makes it a "μαρτυριον", and it can also be said to be "εις μαρτυριον".

Here are some examples of "μαρτυριον" in the LXX+NT:
[Gen 21:30] ... τας επτα αμναδας ταυτας λημψη παρ εμου ινα ωσιν μοι εις μαρτυριον οτι εγω ωρυξα το φρεαρ τουτο
[Deut 31:19-21] ... ινα γενηται μοι η ωδη αυτη εις μαρτυριον εν υιοις ισραηλ ... και αντικαταστησεται η ωδη αυτη κατα προσωπον μαρτυρουσα ...
[Josh 22:27] αλλ ινα η τουτο μαρτυριον ανα μεσον ημων και υμων και ανα μεσον των γενεων ημων μεθ ημας ...
[Josh 24:27] και ειπεν ιησους προς τον λαον ιδου ο λιθος ουτος εσται εν υμιν εις μαρτυριον ... και εσται ουτος εν υμιν εις μαρτυριον επ εσχατων των ημερων ...
[Matt 8:4] ... προσενεγκε το δωρον ο προσεταξεν μωσης εις μαρτυριον αυτοις
[Matt 24:14] και κηρυχθησεται τουτο το ευαγγελιον της βασιλειας εν ολη τη οικουμενη εις μαρτυριον πασιν τοις εθνεσιν ...
[Mark 6:11] ... εκπορευομενοι εκειθεν εκτιναξατε τον χουν τον υποκατω των ποδων υμων εις μαρτυριον αυτοις
[2 Thes 1:10] ... οτι επιστευθη το μαρτυριον ημων εφ υμας εν τη ημερα εκεινη
[James 5:3] ο χρυσος υμων και ο αργυρος κατιωται και ο ιος αυτων εις μαρτυριον υμιν εσται ...

As for "τεκμηριον", I think it is more like "token / proof / verification".
δαυιδ λιμ

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